Time Travel

@PoPpAScience,

Traveling to the past within our own universe causes a problem I can't seem to pen down immediately: If a change occurred resulting from time travel, and that change prevented the time travel from occurring in the first place.

If this were to happen, would time come to a singularity? Or would this problem make time travel impossible (at least in one's own universe)?

2 Replies

@Faun147,

Hi Everybody! Smile

Time travel, though given crediablity through funded experiments by the government, is I believe foolish. The concept of time is the vail which conceals eturnity. Time is most often talked about as something tangiable, a physical reality in itself. When in fact it is a number of relations which form an impression. If one considers that reality in general is a matter of given relations, it may seem entirely appropriate because one of thoughs relations is a conscious subject. We all understand when philosophers speak of first and secondary characteristics, but, any characteristics whatsoever are indeed the property of a subject in that there is mutual dependency.

Time is the movement of our context relative to us, time is temporality relative to a subject which considers him/herself as an individual entity of a given duration, a creature for a day you might say, this individual entity is a secondary quality, delusional, its support is in its high functionality. This same functionality should reveal to us a deeper reality, that reality is that time is subject dependent and that subject is not an individual but a multicellular organism and probably not even in this is identity vouched safe. Certainly apparent reality with its concept of identity in time does not have a firm foundation, and science is moveing ever closer to to shaking this perception. At any rate any theory which leave outs the subject, is a excercise in futility, the apparent concept of time is the property of a given subject. Now, one moment, populated with temporality and utterly dependent upon the idea of individual existence as reality is time. Existence can be understood as a musical movement, which has become somewhat aware of itself. Just a few thoughts, I am more than open to anything substantial on the topic, but the subject is the first priority, only a subject can have a concept---------naive perhaps, but how so? :confused:

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@Faun147,

Faun147 wrote:

Traveling to the past within our own universe causes a problem I can't seem to pen down immediately: If a change occurred resulting from time travel, and that change prevented the time travel from occurring in the first place.

If this were to happen, would time come to a singularity? Or would this problem make time travel impossible (at least in one's own universe)?

You may be referring to what is called the "grandfather paradox". A person might go back in time and murder his own grandfather. If he were to do that, then he could not have been born, and therefore, he would not exist to be able to go back in time to murder his own grandfather.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

A Time Machine

Imagine yourself in another dimension, a parallel universe somewhere in time. Your watching a football game, sitting on your old couch, eating a hot dog and wondering if they'll ever show the cheer leaders again.

Suddenly, without notice, a loud whistle brings your mind back to the game. There's something happening, wait a minute, the refs have stopped the clock. WOW! They stopped time! The men in black and white move to some kind of machine, what could it be? Then BAM! you have traveled back in time. The screen infront of you is showing the history of past events, the game from multiple perceptions. Could it be? How is it possible that we have a time machine but no one knows it? You see the players playing football in the past as real as the present. Well certainly this time machine can not alter the past, you must be imagining things, as you are.

You think time machines don't exist but if they did there is a test. If it were truly a time machine it could alter the past, and so far that has not happened. Just then, the screen you are watching goes back to the referees and the present, Whew! thats cool. The time trip is over. Had enough anyway. You take another bite of the dog and at the same times the official on the screen announces "after further review we are changing the call." Well you nearly spit the dog out of my mouth. Did he say they are changing the past. Before you could grasp the full potential of what had just happened, that you had witnessed a time machine that actually exists, the refs start time again by simply swinging their arms. With a huge sigh of relief you are back to the couch, back from the changed past, back to the present.

Stunned, but coherent you look down at you watch and wonder if they can do it, why can't you!

MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

"There has never been a man who lived in the past, nor shall there be a man whom will live in the future." Schopenhaur:eek:

1 Reply

@boagie,

I have, I am, and I will!

MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

I have, I am, and I will!

MJA

MJA,

I have, I am, and I will, but only in the here and now.

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@PoPpAScience,

...and before and after.
Surely you don't deny from whence you came, from where you are, or where you will be?

You were, you are, and surely you must be.

To be or not to be?

Is that a fair question?

MJA

1 Reply

@PoPpAScience,

PoPpAScience wrote:

Is time travel into the past possible?

As 'past' and 'future' are no more than apparent illusions, fantasies, related to 'memory' in the timeless 'Now', it seems that the (linear) illusion of 'travel' can also be fantasized.
Linearity is another illusion from whence comes the illusion of 'time'. Existence is a 'timeless synchrony of moments', all existent simultaneously, for one (Planck) 'moment'.
It is by Consciousness alone that other memories of other Now moments can be accessed. It is more a lateral 'expansion' of memory than a linear progress.
All we can ever 'see/be' is NOW, as that is all that is supported by evidence.

Your usage of Einstein's equation as some sort of magical phrase or key, seems out of context and nonsensical to me in the way that you use it.

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

...and before and after.
Surely you don't deny from whence you came, from where you are, or where you will be?

You were, you are, and surely you must be.

To be or not to be?

Is that a fair question? MJA

MAJ,

No man has ever live in the past and as Schopenhaur so nicely put it there will be no man whom will live in the future. To be or not to be, is of the moment. We are, you might say inhabiting eturnity right now, and it is not eturnity which is subjected to temporality or time but we, we creatures for a day. No matter how much you learn to segment your existents from the movement of your surrounding environment, that fact remains the playing field is eturnity not time. The generations roll, the field upon which they roll is eturnal--------or a the very least relatively eturnal.

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

MJA,

No man has ever live in the past and as Schopenhaur so nicely put it there will be no man whom will live in the future.quote]

I live in the past sometimes, but am told that I must move on; and that is what brings me here, that's what brings me to now. I also hope I live long enough to live happily in the future too. That is real to me.

MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA,

If that is real to you, I suggest you start a religion!

Smile

Life is of the moment, time simply complicates our understanding and for many it shuts out eturnity-------------now.

1 Reply

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

As 'past' and 'future' are no more than apparent illusions, fantasies, related to 'memory' in the timeless 'Now', it seems that the (linear) illusion of 'travel' can also be fantasized.
Linearity is another illusion from whence comes the illusion of 'time'. Existence is a 'timeless synchrony of moments', all existent simultaneously, for one (Planck) 'moment'.
It is by Consciousness alone that other memories of other Now moments can be accessed. It is more a lateral 'expansion' of memory than a linear progress.
All we can ever 'see/be' is NOW, as that is all that is supported by evidence.

Your usage of Einstein's equation as some sort of magical phrase or key, seems out of context and nonsensical to me in the way that you use it.

Nameless,

Excellent, there is some stuff I need to chew on for a while-----delightful!! I shall get back to you on this, this opens up new avenues, great stuff!!

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

MJA,

If that is real to you, I suggest you start a religion!

Life is of the moment, time simply complicates our understanding and for many it shuts out eturnity-------------now.

I belong to a religion not based on faith, but rather has a foundation of simple truth. I call it Truth. It feel solid, sturdy, powerful, and works great wonders for me. Perhaps someday it will unite the world, that's the hope, the power, and the future I see. Truth has no followers as yet that I know of, except simple me. Someday maybe everyone will join and the world will live as one, and be set free. Lennon said that too!
"Truth shall set us free", don't you know?

MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

I belong to a religion not based on faith, but rather has a foundation of simple truth. I call it Truth. It feel solid, sturdy, powerful, and works great wonders for me. Perhaps someday it will unite the world, that's the hope, the power, and the future I see. Truth has no followers as yet that I know of, except simple me. Someday maybe everyone will join and the world will live as one, and be set free. Lennon said that too!
"Truth shall set us free", don't you know? MJA

MJA,

That is a very nice ideal, I like Lennon too, truth is a topic in and of itself. It does not sound like we are going to come to an agreement about the authority of the present. So, perhaps our discussion of the concept of time and eturnity is over-------for now----lol!! Keep the faith MJA!!

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@PoPpAScience,

PoPpAScience wrote:

Is time travel into the past possible?

where do you think yesterday is spatially in relation to your present location, in order to travel to ?

if we take a more manageable time, say 1 second ago, where is that spatially i ask. well 1 second ago was when the earth was approx 30km behind its current orbit location, realative to the sun. "back then" i.e. 1 second ago the CO2 that you breathed out now, was oxygen that you breathed in, so spatially you need to undo the CO2 and reform O2. the metabolites your body has produced was not in their current form 1 second ago, so spatially these need to deconstruct. and so on for all organsims and all processes, you get my point. it would take more energy to undo then to do. first problem.

second problem, i see, is that you would need to deconstruct all things and processess instantaneously in order to achieve global time travel. with the limit on speed of information, this is the second problem.

third problem is travel into the distant past. in order to undo all these processes you would need a means to do so. whatever form this means in is, it did not exist in its current form in the distant past ie the "time machine" is deconstructed just as CO2, metabolites etc. if your time machine has to be deconstructed in order to reach the distant past, i see this a serious flaw in time travel. for if the time machine is not deconstructed how do you get there

does time travel into the past involve branching universes along the lines of many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, but this is an interpretation and not a reality.

so where is the past spatially ?

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@PoPpAScience,

PoPpAScience wrote:

Is time travel into the past possible?

For there to be a permanent past, which we can travel to. There would have to be a trail of equal amount E=mc^2, recreated every zillionth of a second, to make the past permanent.

There is only the E=mc^2 we see right now, passing into the future.

The past is recreated in our minds, by taking random energy from the E=mc^2 and turning it into memories.

Time travel is a mix of metaphores. No one can travel into the past, but almost everybody is living there. There are time travel machines, but they take a tremendous amount of capital to run. People always arrive in them before they expect and if they step into one of these they step out as old men, if at all. But the government does not want to put too much of their money into these things so they tell everyone it is no fun. But I will clue you in. If it was not fun people wouldn't go there. Now you can find these machines in every state and many counties. They have to surround them with high walls and razor wire to keep people out. But you just climb right over and say here I is. Send me to another age. Twenty years later you might come back thinking you are in a new world, but you was just in a time warp called prison.

1 Reply

@Fido,

The problem with time travel, is that there is no Now, so how can there be a permanent Past. All is ever changing. By the time our consciousness registers that which is in front of us, that what is in front of us has moved onto the future. So, in a sense we can say we are constantly conscious of the past, as we move into the future.

1 Reply

@PoPpAScience,

PoPpAScience wrote:

The problem with time travel, is that there is no Now, so how can there be a permanent Past. All is ever changing. By the time our consciousness registers that which is in front of us, that what is in front of us has moved onto the future. So, in a sense we can say we are constantly conscious of the past, as we move into the future.

From the past we take meaning to fill our future expectations.

0 Replies

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