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Optimism and Pessimism

 
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 11:35 am
Some how, I do not think people really get the meaning of pessimism... There is nothing optimistic or pessamistic in realistic...
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Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 11:46 am
@Fido,
Fido;92770 wrote:
Some how, I do not think people really get the meaning of pessimism... There is nothing optimistic or pessamistic in realistic...


Fido;
Optimism is the avoidance of pessimism. Pessimism is the avoidance of optimism. Both are the avoidance of be-ing. LOL
Dasein
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 06:01 pm
@Dasein,
Dasein;92775 wrote:
Fido;
Optimism is the avoidance of pessimism. Pessimism is the avoidance of optimism. Both are the avoidance of be-ing. LOL
Dasein

It would seem to me that the definition by way of opposites is invalid... When you are finished you want for two definitions rather than one... Like Anni said: women learn to be women and men learn to be men, and given the natural personality each of us are born with, people learn their perspectives, and see only the evidence that supports their opinion.. So what if we are not much... So what if life is ****... When you learn to look for the bright side you find it, but it is not even more valid than any other opinion... Rather, do what you can with what you got...
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Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 05:58 am
@Fido,
Everything is attitude, especially if you have the power....
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Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 06:08 am
@Fido,
I think both have their own place. I am pessimistic about war being necessary for the betterment of society. I am pessimistic about the actions of most politicians doing what is in the best interest of the people. I am pessimistic that religion has always remained pure free from corruption. I am pessimistic that the laws of the nation make the nation peaceful or prosperous. I am pessimistic about the education of the US being the best it can possibly be. (for a nation that praises actors/actresses and athletes with huge sums of money while our teachers have incredibly modest salaries.) I am pessimistic about humanity wanting to improve itself.

Why be so pessimistic? Because it is has been the reality so far. The cup isn't half full nor is it half empty. It is both, better to be realistic.
chad3006
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 08:15 am
@Fido,
Reality is that life is good and bad. A total optimist would be blind to half of life, as would a total pessimist. (oversimplification to illustrate a point)
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Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 06:08 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;92944 wrote:
I think both have their own place. I am pessimistic about war being necessary for the betterment of society. I am pessimistic about the actions of most politicians doing what is in the best interest of the people. I am pessimistic that religion has always remained pure free from corruption. I am pessimistic that the laws of the nation make the nation peaceful or prosperous. I am pessimistic about the education of the US being the best it can possibly be. (for a nation that praises actors/actresses and athletes with huge sums of money while our teachers have incredibly modest salaries.) I am pessimistic about humanity wanting to improve itself.

Why be so pessimistic? Because it is has been the reality so far. The cup isn't half full nor is it half empty. It is both, better to be realistic.

So; how do you think you might change the world while holding the view that so much is fated, and what would be the use of knowledge if it does not facilitate change???
Feuding was good for humanity...Wars are just the result of justice denied for a long period of time, and that is something no feuding society would accept...War kills off the most able, and feuds killed off the least able...A civilized society protects the culls, the weak and the intelligent over the strong, the calculating over the quick tempered...War is only necessary because people enured to injustice must kill or die trying to get the necessities of life...
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Belial phil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 12:48 am
@Fido,
Neutralism makes the most sense.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 04:33 am
@Belial phil,
I'm optimistic about the pessimistic views i have on subjective subjects i find objective but then i am talking hollocks.

The two views can change when a slight breeze occurs ,if your optimistic in nature, but will never change even if a hurricane blows and your pessimistic. Ide much rather be optimistic about human nature.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 05:43 am
@xris,
xris;93259 wrote:
I'm optimistic about the pessimistic views i have on subjective subjects i find objective but then i am talking hollocks.

The two views can change when a slight breeze occurs ,if your optimistic in nature, but will never change even if a hurricane blows and your pessimistic. Ide much rather be optimistic about human nature.


You should not be optimistic about human nature...It is too obvious that our nature is destroying all others...Can it not be more obvious that the nature we need to fear is our own... Storms and earth quakes come and go, but we never change, and it is, I presume, because we cannot...All the human progress we have has left us much as we have always been, devious little monkey killers... All human progress is the result of changes in forms...When we are good, and at our best it is because our forms are helping to correct our defects, and encouraging our happiness... When we are rotten it is because our forms have been mastered and perverted to serve only a few, and people are miserable, and when miserable, people attack their environment and other nations...Forms are cause, and cure, but we know human beings can be both good and vicious, so all people, If they would curb their excesses- should study forms; not as ideologues, but as active dynamic people aware that forms are like the water in which we swim, surrounding and supporting us...Forms are durable because we desire stability... When we desire change our forms should be as easy to change as a primitive form of dwelling... Knowledge of forms is essential so that when necessary, when forms no longer serve people, that they know how to pull out the key pieces and let it fall..We all have our forms, and to some the form is all...Tell the cop on the beat that his form and uniform mean nothing and he will object, perhaps with violence... To those with a place in the form, no amount of education will make them revolt...If it works for them it does not matter how many perople it uses and ruins...
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 06:11 am
@Fido,
Fido;93273 wrote:
You should not be optimistic about human nature...It is too obvious that our nature is destroying all others...Can it not be more obvious that the nature we need to fear is our own... Storms and earth quakes come and go, but we never change, and it is, I presume, because we cannot...All the human progress we have has left us much as we have always been, devious little monkey killers... All human progress is the result of changes in forms...When we are good, and at our best it is because our forms are helping to correct our defects, and encouraging our happiness... When we are rotten it is because our forms have been mastered and perverted to serve only a few, and people are miserable, and when miserable, people attack their environment and other nations...Forms are cause, and cure, but we know human beings can be both good and vicious, so all people, If they would curb their excesses- should study forms; not as ideologues, but as active dynamic people aware that forms are like the water in which we swim, surrounding and supporting us...Forms are durable because we desire stability... When we desire change our forms should be as easy to change as a primitive form of dwelling... Knowledge of forms is essential so that when necessary, when forms no longer serve people, that they know how to pull out the key pieces and let it fall..We all have our forms, and to some the form is all...Tell the cop on the beat that his form and uniform mean nothing and he will object, perhaps with violence... To those with a place in the form, no amount of education will make them revolt...If it works for them it does not matter how many perople it uses and ruins...
So a breeze will not make you optimistic? The individual can encourage me but for the worldly view it is very depressing, i agree.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 03:07 pm
@xris,
xris;93277 wrote:
So a breeze will not make you optimistic? The individual can encourage me but for the worldly view it is very depressing, i agree.

A sunny day will make me warm inside even while I freeze to death on a motorcycle ride...Optimism, and pessimism cannot only be emotional states...Extremes must always be justified especially when they do not fit reality, but no matter how much they are defended they are at base illogical, as we are, as humanity is...
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