Security vs. Liberty

My point was to suggest that one need not worry about terrorists, except insofar as they provide an excuse for our own government to (1) take our liberties and (2) fight aggressive imperial wars abroad that serve no purpose other - and are intended to serve no other purpose - than to further the interests of the banks and corporations.

Terrorism is a police issue, like murder in any major American city. If you are afraid of terrorists you are serving the interests of the terrorists (and our corrupt government).

Of course, in my opinion, those interests are highly aligned. Isn't it funny that most of the major terrorist threats were funded and trained by our own intelligence services in the late 80's and 90's? We all know about Osama Bin Laden's ties to the CIA and ISI.

For a less well known example:

General McChrystal, the current commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, issued a 66 page report publicly on the present state of affairs in that country. He said, among other things, "The major insurgent groups in order of their threat to the mission are: the Quetta Shura Taliban (05T), the Haqqani Network (HQN), and the Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin (HiG)."

Those latter two organizations are controlled by Jalaluddin Haqqanni and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the two major CIA assets in the Mujahideen during the late 80's - i.e. when current Defense Secretary Robert Gates was the Deputy Director of the CIA.

That's funny isn't it...:sarcastic:

As far as Yemen is concerned, another interesting bit a reality. The two 'terrorist' organizations within Yemen that the government is claiming to be supporting Al Qaeda are the Houthi rebels in the North and the Southern Front, obviously in the south. Neither are likely to be assisting Al Qaeda. Why? The former are Shia, the latter are socialists who formerly allied with the Soviet Union!

Curiouser and curiouser...

My point was to suggest that one need not worry about terrorists, except insofar as they provide an excuse for our own government to (1) take our liberties and (2) fight aggressive imperial wars abroad that serve no purpose other - and are intended to serve no other purpose - than to further the interests of the banks and corporations.

Terrorism is a police issue, like murder in any major American city. If you are afraid of terrorists you are serving the interests of the terrorists (and our corrupt government).

Of course, in my opinion, those interests are highly aligned. Isn't it funny that most of the major terrorist threats were funded and trained by our own intelligence services in the late 80's and 90's? We all know about Osama Bin Laden's ties to the CIA and ISI.

For a less well known example:

General McChrystal, the current commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, issued a 66 page report publicly on the present state of affairs in that country. He said, among other things, "The major insurgent groups in order of their threat to the mission are: the Quetta Shura Taliban (05T), the Haqqani Network (HQN), and the Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin (HiG)."

Those latter two organizations are controlled by Jalaluddin Haqqanni and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the two major CIA assets in the Mujahideen during the late 80's - i.e. when current Defense Secretary Robert Gates was the Deputy Director of the CIA.

That's funny isn't it...:sarcastic:

As far as Yemen is concerned, another interesting bit a reality. The two 'terrorist' organizations within Yemen that the government is claiming to be supporting Al Qaeda are the Houthi rebels in the North and the Southern Front, obviously in the south. Neither are likely to be assisting Al Qaeda. Why? The former are Shia, the latter are socialists who formerly allied with the Soviet Union!

Curiouser and curiouser...

Yes, I see. It is a plot by the government. Just like 9/11, or the walk on the Moon. You did not explain it clearly. If you had, I would not even have replied to your post.

The world would be such a great place if it just were not for the United States. No one would bother anyone.

I guess there's more than on way to keep your head in the sand.



The wars we fight benefit major corporations and the political class at our expense. The wars we fight have directly or indirectly caused the deaths of millions of innocent people in Asia, Africa, and South/Central America and impoverished or maintained the poverty of millions more. If you believe that we are fighting in Iraq in order to 'liberate the Iraqi people' for example, there are no words to express my astonishment.

Terrorism is a police issue, like murder in any major American city. If you are afraid of terrorists you are serving the interests of the terrorists (and our corrupt government).

I don't quite understand. I would be afraid of a murderer, just as I would be afraid of a terrorist.

I am serving interests because I fear psychopaths?

The goal of a murderer is not to achieve a political purpose by instilling terror - your emotional reaction to a murder in LA is irelavant to the murderer. Obviousl as the name implies, to achieve a political purpose by intilling terror is the goal of terrorism. Therefore, by being reacting to their pitiful actions with fear, you serve their purpose.

Well, that is how it goes. It is called, Alice in Wonderland. Nothing is what it seems, and anyway, it is all topsy-turvey.

But how did you ever find all this out?

I hope you don't mean to imply I'm helping or supporting the terrorists in some manner by being, well, terrified. How on Earth could you think this? It's a natural, common reaction to be scared when you see a 737 suicide bomber coming your way, isn't it?



What is how it goes?

I hope you don't mean to imply I'm helping or supporting the terrorists in some manner by being, well, terrified. How on Earth could you think this? It's a natural, common reaction to be scared when you see a 737 suicide bomber coming your way, isn't it?

The kind of thing Bright Noon, and others like him, write.

2. Therefore, if you are in fact afraid of terrorism, you are playing into the hands of the terrorists. That is of course completely different from supporting or sypathizing with them.

On the other hand, being afraid of terrorism in general, i.e. fearing that some terrorist might attack your town, your plane, etc. - and having no grounds for that fear other than the fact that there are terrorists who might do such a thing - is silly

Some food for thought. The chances of being killed in a car accident are about 1 in 6500. The chances of being killed in a terrorist attack in the U.S. (assuming there's a 9/11 scale attack every year) is about 1 in 100,000

So then I can safefully assume you're not going to do any research to determine whether my claims re American foreign policy are true or not? And you're going to continue implying I'm somone kind of whack-job conspiracy theorist?

Unlike yourself, I'm not going to take that personally. It makes me a little sad, but that's the extent of my emotional involvement.

Let's suppose for a moment your (a) is correct. Let us also suppose I fear the terrorists. Now what? I mean, what happens now that I'm playing into their hands?

What I'm seeking is what you feel I lose, or what you feel the terrorists gain, once I fear them? I mean, for any real, significant effect to be seen, there would have to be mass hysteria -- and probably for a lengthy amount of time, too. A few paranoid Americans aren't going to push America into compliance with any terrorist agenda.



As noted, I think this would be a form of paranoia.

even if it had nothing to do with terrorism, if there were no terrorists, it would be important to stress the harm that allowing fear to dominate consciousness can cause. fear of getting diseases, fear of death,, fear of commitment, all kinds of fear when they dominate people are serious matters.

Indeed, they are serious matters. As I noted, many of them are forms of paranoia or even worse psychological disorders. The disease of fearing something for no good reason is called phobia, and people can have phobias for nearly anything.

Where is the evidence that there is mass hysteria in America and that everyone is paranoid? In fact, I've seen the exact opposite as a result of the terrorist attack on this country -- hundreds of "freedom fighters" emerging in search of men in turbans to shoot. These people have no real cause... it's just time to have some fun. You know how many of my friends have joined the army since the attack? One! And that's a big freakin' number considering I only have two friends.

The non-fear is what is destroying this country, not the fear! I wish people would be more scared, stay in their damn houses, and stop terrorizing every single man that looks like he has Arabian descent.

It doesn't take much research to gain a basic understanding of American foreign policy since WWII. Nothing I said is based on 'secret documents' or any other doubtful sources. you can find a book about the CIA engineered coup in Iran in 1953, or about the various coups in Central and South America in the 70's and 80's, or about the activities of the CIA and ISI in Central Asia and around the periphery of the former Soviet Union in the 90's. None of this is new or controversial. Even writers who support this imperialistic foreign policy do not usually deny that such wars and covert actions were undertaken for other than the stated humantrarian motives - they ackowledge that control of vital mineral, access to markets, control of strategic geography, etc. were motives...they just think that's a good thing.

As a start, I would reccomend you look into the articles on the website below.

www.globalresearch.ca

I would reccomend Rick Rozoff, Michel Chossudovky, and William F. Engdahl as reliable and regular contributors of articles.

Here are a few very informative articles on the nature of the Western alliance (US-NATO-EU), the attempted incorporation by that alliance of former Soviet republics, general Western strategy in the Greater Middle East, and other related topics.

EU, NATO, US: 21st Century Alliance For Global Domination

Eastern Partnership: The West's Final Assault On the Former Soviet Union

Balkans: Staging Ground For NATO's Post-Cold War Order

Colour-Coded Revolutions and the Origins of World War III

it seems there is paranoia in america from reading how some people feel. as you say, we would have to have more on the table to know exactly how many people are afraid. but i think there are enough to influence the way history is being played out and they have been afraid for a long enough time-probably started back with 'the british are coming! the british are coming!' so the terrorists have replaced the communists, that is the only difference.

i dont believe you are one of the paranoid, but it is easy to see how those who are play into the hands of terrorists. terrorists want chaos and that is what fear will produce. a person with fear in the foreground of his mind will make irrational decisions. once a society lives in fear and has it as the basis of its everyday life decisionsthere is no quality of life, therefore they have already been destroyed.

terrorism is more a form of psychological warfare than physical. even if the terrorists only succeed in blowing themselves up, people may still be afraid that next time they will be within range of the blast, and that scores points for the terrorists.

even if it had nothing to do with terrorism, if there were no terrorists, it would be important to stress the harm that allowing fear to dominate consciousness can cause. fear of getting diseases, fear of death,, fear of commitment, all kinds of fear when they dominate people are serious matters.