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Cycles, rhythms and patterns

 
 
boagie
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 10:01 am
Hi all,Smile

This is a kind of exploratory venture, drawing on the collective community here. Many people know ruffly that they have these twenty four hour circadian rhythms within themselves. These however are response reactions to the rhythms of the earth and our solar system. I would just like to explore this relationship we have with the earth and the comos. Any one really knowledgable in this area now is your time to shine. If you just have a piece of the puzzle that is fine to, we would most appreciated your contribution. Keep in mind these are reactions to something, so if you can identify certain circadian rhythms, try to indicate the trigger of that reactionary response. Perhaps we might include identifing the cycles, rhythms and patterns in other things in our everyday experience.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,897 • Replies: 21
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BrightNoon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:03 am
@boagie,
Well, I have no such technical knowledge at all, so I can't offer anything specific. However, I agree with you basic premise and I've often wondered about this, which wondering usually ends in wild eyed confusion: very fine topic...good luck! I suggest you find a chaos theory person.
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:15 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon,Smile

Yes, my own knowledge in this area is limited, that is why I thought to draw on the collective. I know that many conditons, experiments in labs ect have proven that in order to keep a say rabbit or arctic fox white all the time, it has nothing to do with the cold, it is the light that is the key. Perhaps this was not such a good idea, we will see how much aid comes from the collective community. Thanks for your well wishes BrightNoon. Perhaps I should do a little homework on this as well.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 06:41 am
@boagie,
Yea, I too am a bit scarce in technical knowledge on this issue.

But when I was stationed in northern Alaska, maintaining circadian rhythms was a major concern; 'twas the buzz-phrase everyone (at one time or another) talked about. [INDENT] And yes, the reason had more to do with Light than anything else. That close to the arctic circle, 22 hours of darkness during the summer and 22 hours of darkness during the winter messed a lot of people up. Some, didn't have any real problem with it. But for others, their sleep patterns got all askew. For my part, I had NO problem with 22 hours of darkness, but had a hell of a time sleeping during the summer with all that sunlight.
[/INDENT]I wish I had more to contribute, since I'm fairly-certain there is a quantifiable basis for this. I have a vague recollection of seeing a documentary on this issue where experiments were done subjecting the different parts of body to ultraviolet light; in many cases, folks just "woke up".

I wish I had time to research this more, it's a fascinating aspect to our biology.

Thanks
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 08:10 am
@Khethil,
Khethil.Smile

Thanks for dropping in, yes it is intriguing. I too have spent time in the high arctic, the northern shores of Baffin Island right next door to Greenland. At four O'clock in the morning it was like high noon. I did notice on raising that my energy level had not been as low as it would have been down south, many of my peers covered their windows with plastic garbage bags to keep out the light. I notice the place had a calming effect upon me, I thought it had to do with both the constent light and the landscape itself, there was something of a transformation of my biology that occured, of that I am quite sure. Going home was a shock, all the noise, all that hustle and bustle, you tend to experience culture shock both coming and going. The closest community to where I was, was the Inuit hamlet of Arctic Bay on Baffin Island-----your southern circadian rhythms don't stand a chance up there!!
Holiday20310401
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:47 pm
@boagie,
I'd really like to contribute here but I don't know anything about this sort of stuff so I did some research and found this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Biological_clock_human.PNG

The basics I suppose. Also, according to healthlink, we live on a 25 hour cycle, not 24. It's an edu website so it must be valid, and I had also heard a while ago that people wake up better when exposed to blue light, probably an adaptation to the sky as the sun rises. However, this is not part of what you're trying to get at, just a reaction, right?

I find though that I think best at night than during the day, is this what you mean? The body undergoes change without the appropriate conditions, because they are sort of programmed or imprinted now after a while.
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 06:51 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday,Smile

That is helpful, that diagram is most interesting, yes the twenty five hour rhythm is apparently the reality for some circadin rhythms, apparently from when the earth turned more slowly though that seems rather counter intuitive surely the earth did not speed up, but apparently the earth did turn more slowly at sometime in the past and these rhythms are still with us. I might add that considering these rhythms as reactions is more my slant on things, I have never heard these things expressed as such, though it is apparent. I shall do a little digging myself, and hopefully someone a good deal more in the know will jump in here to get this thing off the ground. Thanks for your input Holiday, most appreciated!!
0 Replies
 
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2008 12:47 pm
Khethil,Smile

I think you play with symantics here, our biology is effect by the physcial world, response to this in the form of transformation of the species is indeed a response, is a reaction to our physical context. Yes the moon not only governs the tides, it also governs the menstral cycle of the human female. I suspect it plays a part in any number of our circadian rhythms that I am not aware of at presently.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2008 02:44 pm
No worries, I've done it.

I think I'd said something about the general ties between our biology and this planet; and included something about the lunar cycle.

It's all good
0 Replies
 
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2008 08:55 pm
@boagie,
To me...no scholar by any means;

I believe in a Universal foot-print. A ground state, coupled by other ground states, a matrix or a radix.

To me it's logical that there would be security on such a physcial reality. This is known as the layered security approach. Each "Entity" would be coupled to it's underlaying ground state coupled to each-other unknowingly.

In security logic, if we had a device, say this devices had many parts to it's intricate design. Take a keyboard for instance, you see the buttons, the buttons exist to you because the security layer is in place (the container). To you the user, all you need to know is what switch (button) to press, regardless what goes on in the underlaying world. The simple fact is your curiosity simply was satisfied with the button.

There are "people" me included, who can take off the wrapper (Eisenstein's watch analogy), without opening the box per se.

My simple thought is when you remove the cover (ones reality) what do you see?
0 Replies
 
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2008 09:02 pm
@boagie,
Reality is a security measure, to protect the under and over laying intricacies. With this in "mind" I see a wonderful place, more beautifully than anyone has thought, a true miracle in action.

My thought is we are not moving at all, the reality (sensors) are being tricked. Have you ever been next to another car, not really paying attention? And for a period of time, you truly had no idea if you or the other car was moving?

You can see how easy it really is to trick the senses, however you have one such major one that can't be so easily fooled, your mind.

These repeats are the overlaying and underlaying restrictions. There are indeed meshed "forces",as with any force, there are repeats of such.

I would think that super-nova's wakes would be felts by the entire universe, is some way.

Suppose this Super-Nova was a white-hole. Make sense a little bit, the opposite of a black-hole, a white hole. Where information just spews out, well kinda like stars. Just look at a Neutron star, and does it not look like information in spewing out?

A black-hole, well that is to me a tear in ones reality. Since this object is out of our dimension you would see only the forces, not the object itself. They even theorized that the object would glow as the particles where accelerated to the speed of light.

Well, as the speed of light states. If you where to reach the speed of light, time would compress, and yes, at the speed of light it stops. How would you see this? The simple fact is you wouldn't see anything, things would disappear right before your very eyes. Not everything out there is what it seems to be.

-Marc
Diversity in Action...
0 Replies
 
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 03:28 pm
@boagie,
I leave these tools, to help ponder some thoughts;

Peano Monster Curves

Fractal Geometry

The Koch Coastline

The Mandelbrot Set

-BaC
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 06:22 pm
@boagie,
I know some stuff about complex-systems theory, which is the field of study that fractal geometry and the Mandelbrot Set, along with chaos theory. In complex-systems theory, cycles, rhythms and patterns play a big role in the interaction of the system as a whole. Ecology is a field that all of this comes into play due to the nature of the complexities within ecosystems.

While these links may not be the best. It will at least give a little intro into the areas of study.

Complex systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chaos theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 06:33 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus,Smile

Your input here is most appreciated and it is most fitting, but I would love it if you started a thread on general systems theory. This is something that deserves exposer.
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 06:50 pm
@Theaetetus,
The heart to all my posts in this thread is indeed outlined in Chaos theory.
As Theaetetus elegantly pointed out cheers for that Theaetetus;)
As your name points out battlefields.


-BaC
Theaetetus wrote:
I know some stuff about complex-systems theory, which is the field of study that fractal geometry and the Mandelbrot Set, along with chaos theory. In complex-systems theory, cycles, rhythms and patterns play a big role in the interaction of the system as a whole. Ecology is a field that all of this comes into play due to the nature of the complexities within ecosystems.

While these links may not be the best. It will at least give a little intro into the areas of study.

Complex systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chaos theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
paulhanke
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 09:12 pm
@BaCaRdi,
... a couple of guys named Strogatz and Watts noodled on this stuff for awhile ... they found self-synchronization everywhere they looked ... for example, it's not just interesting to see that the human circadian rhythm is roughly 25 hours when left to its own devices, but it's just as interesting that this inherent off-beat rhythm synchronizes itself to the earth's 24-hour days when exposed to night and day ... other places to find self-synchronization: a certain species of lightning bug self-synchronizes with its neighbor lightning bugs, eventually resulting in whole fields of lightning bugs flashing on and off in concert (it's quite a show from what I understand); and neurons in the human brain self-synchronize resulting in cascades of neuronal activity flowing back and forth (doing who knows what!) ... Strogatz wrote a pop-sci book on the subject - appropriately titled "Sync: The Emerging Science of Spontaneous Order" ... and as self-synchronization is a phenomenon that occurs in networks, Watts wrote another pop-sci book on that subject - titled "Six Degrees: The Science of a Connected Age" (which makes you wonder what sort of self-synchronization/self-organization is going on in the Internet!) ... I recommend both ... and if you're hard-core, both men have more formal works as well (they co-authored an article "Collective Dynamics of Complex Networks" in Nature; Strogatz authored "Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos: With Applications to Physics, Biology, Chemistry, and Engineering"; Watts authored "Small Worlds: the Dynamics of Networks Between Order and Randomness") ...
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 09:15 pm
@paulhanke,
Absolutely, the more you look the more you will find it to be true.

And with anything the more you learn the more there is too learn..hehe

Man can't get away from that paradox within science..

-BaC
paulhanke wrote:
... a couple of guys named Strogatz and Watts noodled on this stuff for awhile ... they found self-synchronization everywhere they looked ... for example, it's not just interesting to see that the human circadian rhythm is roughly 25 hours when left to its own devices, but it's just as interesting that this inherent off-beat rhythm synchronizes itself to the earth's 24-hour days when exposed to night and day ... other places to find self-synchronization: a certain species of lightning bug self-synchronizes with its neighbor lightning bugs, eventually resulting in whole fields of lightning bugs flashing on and off in concert (it's quite a show from what I understand); and neurons in the human brain self-synchronize resulting in cascades of neuronal activity flowing back and forth (doing who knows what!) ... Strogatz wrote a pop-sci book on the subject - appropriately titled "Sync: The Emerging Science of Spontaneous Order" ... and as self-synchronization is a phenomenon that occurs in networks, Watts wrote another pop-sci book on that subject - titled "Six Degrees: The Science of a Connected Age" (which makes you wonder what sort of self-synchronization/self-organization is going on in the Internet!) ... I recommend both ... and if you're hard-core, both men have more formal works as well (they co-authored an article "Collective Dynamics of Complex Networks" in Nature; Strogatz authored "Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos: With Applications to Physics, Biology, Chemistry, and Engineering"; Watts authored "Small Worlds: the Dynamics of Networks Between Order and Randomness") ...
0 Replies
 
Holiday20310401
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 06:43 pm
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Theaetetus,Smile

Your input here is most appreciated and it is most fitting, but I would love it if you started a thread on general systems theory. This is something that deserves exposer.


I second that idea. I would be very interested in learning about this. And some math too. :detective:
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 08:24 pm
@Holiday20310401,
I third it...Wait was that to me..lol

You guys are waring me out.lol Damn blackholes.lolol

-BaC
Holiday20310401 wrote:
I second that idea. I would be very interested in learning about this. And some math too. :detective:
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:21 am
@boagie,
Wow, we went off the deep-end there for a few...

boagie wrote:
I think you play with symantics here, our biology is effect by the physcial world, response to this in the form of transformation of the species is indeed a response, is a reaction to our physical context. Yes the moon not only governs the tides, it also governs the menstral cycle of the human female. I suspect it plays a part in any number of our circadian rhythms that I am not aware of at presently.


Yep, precisely my point. And I'd even add that...

As we evolve in "this environment", our bodies became attuned to - and even likely took advantage of - various elements of said environment. The correlation of our circadian rhythms, lunar cycles and the like - to my mind - are no surprise. I believe there are more correlates, I just don't recall what they are.

Did any further research help Boagie?
 

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