@xris,
xris wrote:I dont know what question this really poses, well for me that is.
I think the advancement of the conditions of the lower classes did not come from the academics as you suggest but by those who had suffered the most.The Tolpuddle martyrs are a good example of that struggle and the rise of revolution was by necessity rather than some high ideological reason.
But "the people" had suffered for thousands of years. And if you look at Hobbes for example, who was born in 1588, his philosophy is not one of high ideals. Quite the contrary, he extolled human nature on naturalistic grounds with his affirmations of everyday passions and wants. Modern freedom was built on low grounds. This is the only way the masses could be excused. The masses were no longer extolled to follow an impossibly high standard of virtue.
At the very least, you might agree, the philosophers ideas were necessary to inform the policies of those who eventually instituted parliments. (And parliments were wholly new inventions; instead of political ideals being informed by relgion or nobility or Gods, they were being informed upon rational grounds.)
Quote:Nationalistic tendencies still stir even in the most ardent revolutionary and manipulative men of history abused those human characteristics.If the flag of liberty was waved at those who attached value to its intention, they would sacrifice all for its cause.Napoleon,Stalin.Mao all abused that desire for change by the common man and turned it into monsters.
I agree xris, there were certainly horrific abuses carried out by revolutionaries in the name of human freedom. I think the question is: how to modernize? how to progress from a state of backwardness to a form of justice for the many? What is the human meaning of progress and how to achieve it? These are also, in my view, philsophical questions as well as pragmatic ones.
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