They shall fall by the sword

Here is Tertullian on the fate of non believing Pagans: "You are fond of spectacles, except the greatest of spectacles, the last and eternal judgment of the universe. How shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs, and fancied gods, groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates, who persecuted the name of the Lord, liquefying in fiercer fires than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sage philosophers blushing in red hot flames, with their deluded scholars; so many celebrated trembling before the tribunal, not of Minos, but of Christ; so many tragedians, more tuneful in the expression o their own sufferings; so many dancers?.."..Gibbon goes on to say that the 'humanity of the reader will permit me to draw a veil over the rest of this infernal description'. Gibbon XV 29
.................Logos

While being a materialist, Democritus nevertheless was Greek and quoted with the following beautiful statement ?" Good actions should be done not out of compulsion but from conviction: not out of hope of reward, but for their own sake. A man should feel more shame in doing evil before himself than before all the world."
......... Logos

Hi, Logos. Thanks for those great quotes by Tertullian, Gibbon and Democritus.

I posted my quote from the bible because I thought it was great literature, expressing a great sentiment. And as far as literary quality goes and despite the unquestionable genius of Democritus, I think that your Tertullian quote is the better, and I wish that Gibbon would have allowed us the full pleasure even though we may fall under Tertullian's horrific judgment as philosophers ourselves.

-'...so many tragedians, more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings'- Now that's just awesome!! Burn baby, burn!

By the way, I would like to say that it is my opinon that there is, so to speak, a 'hole' in atomism where the arrangements actually to be found in nature would seem to violate the purely accidental nature of the falling of atoms that is found in Democritus' theory. And that there seems to be a pretty direct path between materialism and hedonism.

Here is a modern quote I found online by a Mr. Kenneth Smith:

"The fallacy of modern atomistic individualism is of course not just our "tabula rasa" self-deception but also our ego-mythical "social contract": if every member of modern society is supposed autonomously and privately to think through for himself the most vital and fundamental (normative, evaluative, principled) issues of his life -- i.e. to undertake primal self-formation utterly on his own and outside the purview of parents/peers/education/media etc. -- then of course the vast majority will never advance past point A or B, whatever is most obvious, blatant, and simplistic. Expecting moderns to be radically "self-creative" when their culture systematically strips them of all concrete cultural content that might act as soulish or spiritual alphabets, is expecting fleas to jump when their legs have been cut off. Ex nihilo nihil fit, out of nothing nothing is going to get produced: humans require raw materials, they require means and tools and techniques and instructions as well as a repertory of ends, principles, values, teleological orientations, hierarchies of perspectives, etc.. If anyone wants to know where such an unholy and vast mass of aborted personalities came from in modern society (the modern Many), one virtually has to look no further than the vacuous or abstractivist code that deprives all of them of cultural traction and grit, and encourages their doulic lethargy and their banausic materialism."

Pythagorean and members:
If anyone wants to know where such an unholy and vast mass of aborted personalities came from in modern society (the modern Many), one virtually has to look no further than the vacuous or abstractivist code that deprives all of them of cultural traction and grit, and encourages their doulic lethargy and their banausic materialism."

Yes indeed. I quoted Democritus not as a follower of materialism but for the message he presents. The emphasis of responsibility on an individual level when understanding that one's actions have cause and effect is powerful stuff.
I work as a psychiatric nurse and deal with acute psychological disturbances. The people that are hospitalized come in with a wide variety of presentations. Most are suicidal/homicidal. The materialistic side of medicine can be clearly demonstrated if we have a paranoid schizophrenic and through antipsychotics he or she improves. However, many patients are not psychotic. Some are depressed, some are drug addicted, some are shame ridden. Many of these people respond ( improve in the sense that they are no longer suicidal but rather hopeful ) not by and by through materialistic means ( external medications). These folk, who are able to understand cause and effect, are able to learn and remember past events?( on average ) they liven up when they explore the concept of having a choice and the possibility of developing autonomy. It is the reason I work psychiatric nursing. It takes real person to person contact, honesty and goodwill. Its about developing a sense of ability and responsibility, of being able to make a difference in one's own life.
The copy of the previous post above is all too telling of the frightening direction we moderns have moved in.
?????Logos

The sword is double-edged. It condemns and it protects. It will slay the righteous as well as the evil amongst us. The sword is a failure of statesmanship and is the instrument of rationalization.
When its drawn it brings about preservation or self-annhilation, but if sheathed it accomplishes nothing.