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Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

 
 
BorisKitten
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 06:25 am
@BorisKitten,
Facebook has removed its "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" page, which had 60,000 "fans," just today.
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:21 am
@BorisKitten,
Funny, now it has returned! And it actually has 80,000 fans now.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:04 am
And here's my "drawing":
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4624397396_f25ac66ff9.jpg
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:10 am
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

What IrishK said. Not a terrible picture, really, as it is a manipulation of one of the Danish Cartoonist's original images that got this whole ball rolling long ago. It is most certainly as relevant as it is offensive. (So don't feel bad) Cheers!


Bugger.

0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:33 am
Browse through the nearly 8,000 images that have been posted to the Facebook group and tell me that this is still about defending free speech and not about an excuse to blatantly display bigotry.

Facebook Group's Images

OCCOM BILL
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:34 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Bill - The censorship topic in this thread is an issue to take up with Viacom. We cannot blame the radicals for that. The issue here is not even about free speech, it's about manipulation through threats of violence. Free speech is only the selected weapon of choice to demonstrate the futility of trying to manipulate others.

Nonsense. We are currently living in a de facto state of censorship as creative effort is being suppressed by corporations and self-suppressed by artists themselves, ALL on account of the Death Threats from a fanatical few. Free speech is precisely what's under fire here, but I agree with you that we must use it to undermine every attempt to superimpose Sharia Law over our constitution.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2628/muhammadg.jpg
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:39 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Cyclo - Did you read what my old roommate had to say about this? I posted it a few pages back. He is a moderate Muslim and offered some incite.

I think you might be missing a big point here. Moderate Muslims aren't going to be as outraged as they are being portrayed. I'm offended on a rather frequent basis, and I'm mature enough to know it's not a green light for violence or radical action. If anything, it' usually a time for creating an open dialog.

Isn't it a bit insulting to assume that we can handle the criticism (or even mockery) and they (moderate Muslims) can't?


The problem is that the situation doesn't transalate well across social and cultural lines, not to mention language barriers. The vast majority of people who see this going on around the world will not understand your motivations at all - they will simply see a large group of young Americans engaging in behaviors which are contrary to their religion.

And the important part is, they are not doing so for any reason other then to jam a thumb in the eye of Muslims, and to state that the power of our free speech far supersedes the power of Fear that some of them employ.

It's not that I don't understand the internal motivations that you and other artists have had; it is that I believe that many will not understand it, and that it will end up being used against us by radicals. It already is being mis-interpreted this way around the world. Viz -

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20005464-93.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0

The difference between the people who are choosing to participate in this, and the original artist, comes from the fact that the original artists' message carried satire and political meaning, whereas the copycat messages carry an altogether different meaning; a more adversarial one, one intended to send a message that leads not to reflection but anger.

Cycloptichorn
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:43 am
I'd not go as far as saying it's de facto. Private orgs have ALWAYS had this ability, and this is not the first time they have pulled an episode. no matter the reason. Public pressure has been put on media outlets when they have broadcast messages that are offensive in the past and they have pulled episodes.

It's not a de facto state of censorship when a company pulls an episode because they feel it could hurt their reputation. How many news anchors have given public apologies on TV for making some dumb statement that offended someone?

A
R
The issue here is the threat of violence. Media being pulled is nothing that uncommon.

Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:07 am
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2010/05/their_turn_12_top_cartoonists.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shahed-amanullah/the-collective-punishment_b_570398.html
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:13 am
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

Browse through the nearly 8,000 images that have been posted to the Facebook group and tell me that this is still about defending free speech and not about an excuse to blatantly display bigotry.

Facebook Group's Images
So when I defend the KKK's right to assemble, march and speak; do you interpret that as defending their ideals as well?
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:14 am
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011907399_cartoon20m.html

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/archives/206538.asp?source=mypi

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:18 am
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

Butrflynet wrote:

Browse through the nearly 8,000 images that have been posted to the Facebook group and tell me that this is still about defending free speech and not about an excuse to blatantly display bigotry.

Facebook Group's Images
So when I defend the KKK's right to assemble, march and speak; do you interpret that as defending their ideals as well?


When you start carrying a red cross and wearing a hood and marching with them, yeah - I do. You aren't defending artist's right to free speech, you are becoming an artist yourself, with the sole purpose of proving to others that their beliefs - that Mohamed should not be drawn - is inferior to our beliefs that people can draw whatever the **** they want.

Cycloptichorn
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:19 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I'd not go as far as saying it's de facto. Private orgs have ALWAYS had this ability, and this is not the first time they have pulled an episode. no matter the reason. Public pressure has been put on media outlets when they have broadcast messages that are offensive in the past and they have pulled episodes.

It's not a de facto state of censorship when a company pulls an episode because they feel it could hurt their reputation. How many news anchors have given public apologies on TV for making some dumb statement that offended someone?

A
R
The issue here is the threat of violence. Media being pulled is nothing that uncommon.
That straddling position will get uncomfortable soon. You are following Thomas in ignoring the fact of self-censorship, out of fear, as a result of the Death Threats. The result is a net reduction in cartoon production which is a de facto state of censorship. Again, so there's no further confusion: Blaming the network for the wide-spread fear among Matt and Trey's peers is ridiculous.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:40 am
@OCCOM BILL,
If you do so by using it as an excuse to blatantly display your own offensive hatred and bigotry while justifying it as a free speech movement (as many of your fellow protesters are doing), then yes, I'd say that I'd be just as saddened by your actions as I am by what I've seen today.

Today, many of these images and comments on Facebook make me very ashamed to be an American.

Some of the images also are very good at making the point about free speech without also bringing in the derogatory bigotry and hate elements.




failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:44 am
Self censorship would be if Matt and Trey decided to pull the episode or not make future episodes that displayed the image. This is not the first time they have made done this, nor the first threat they have received.

They understood prior to any threats that this is exactly the response they would get. They didn't self censor. They proceeded and didn't let their fear get the better of their creative endeavor. Are you going to say that this topic began after the episode was created? You're not so short sighted Bill.

As for draw Muhammad day, Matt and Trey already did it. They did it without prompt at that. Their statement wasn't reactionary (at least directly). I think they understood that the episode could be pulled, and that the episode would receive a controversial response. That's what they do. They say nothing is sacred, and move fearlessly through topics with unapologetic disregard for political correctness. It's not the first or last time they will piss somebody off.

In a released statement from the creators:
Matt & Trey wrote:

April 22, 2010

In the 14 years we've been doing South Park we have never done a show that we couldn't stand behind. We delivered our version of the show to Comedy Central and they made a determination to alter the episode. It wasn't some meta-joke on our part. Comedy Central added the bleeps. In fact, Kyle's customary final speech was about intimidation and fear. It didn't mention Muhammad at all but it got bleeped too. We'll be back next week with a whole new show about something completely different and we'll see what happens to it.


Censoring the episode began prior to the episode's air date, and prior to threats. It's obvious Viacom was prepared to pull the episode. I think you assume too much about the motives here. If fear is what will make us censor ourselves, they were already afraid, and proceeded anyway. Isn't that the point here?

Having said that, we both agree that Muslim extremists need a message about making threats. I think the message should be that threats are a futile effort to enforce sharia law.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:44 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
Blaming the network for the wide-spread fear among Matt and Trey's peers is ridiculous.


From the Washington Post article I linked to earlier:

HERE ARE THE EXPANDED COMMENTS FROM ALL THE CARTOONISTS:

REX BABIN:
President, Association of American Editorial Cartoonists

I do not plan to draw Muhammad this week. Nor is the AAEC involved in plans to participate in any such "event." If there are individual cartoonists participating, I am unaware of it and as far as I tell there has been relatively little discussion.

Personally, I would be opposed to our organization getting behind such an "event" because as we have already seen, something like that can be too easily co-opted by interest groups who, I suspect, have an agenda that goes beyond a simple defense of free expression.

The AAEC has repeatedly stated for the record its unequivocal support for the right of free expression and categorically condemns any suggestions of violence that would lead to an erosion of that right.


CLAY BENNETT:
Chattanooga Times Free Press

Do I plan to draw Muhammad this week? Well, yes and no. Let me explain. ...

No laws should infringe on the free speech of any person or the free expression of any artist, especially a religious law imposed through coercion and threats of violence. And while I support the civil disobedience being promoted ... I will not be be publishing a cartoon depicting the prophet. When a cartoonist is told, "You can't draw something," it only makes the desire to draw it that much stronger. But likewise, when a cartoonist is told, "You should draw something," the instinct to resist is just as strong.

Credibility is based on independence and objectivity. That credibility is paramount to any journalist who routinely express his or her opinions on the issues of the day. As an editorial cartoonist, it's up to me and me alone, to choose the subject matter for my work. ... With that independence in mind, I've always tried to avoid participating in any orchestrated campaigns to promote a specific topic or issue. So, as vehemently as I may defend the rights of the "South Park" creators who drew the prophet Muhammad, and while I universally condemn any attempt to intimidate other cartoonists from doing the same, I will not be participating in the "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day."

At least not officially.

Sharia Law forbids any depiction of the prophet Muhammad. ... Any drawing, even one rendered in private and never shared with another soul, is a violation of that law. So, that's how I intend to honor the protest. In the privacy of my office, I will draw a caricature of the prophet. To avoid any appearance of an orchestrated effort to sway public opinion, however, I will not publish what I draw.


STEVE BREEN:
San Diego Union-Tribune

No, I'm not going to draw Muhammad this week. I signed the petition because I'm against violence and intimidation by any group. That said, it is my understanding that any depiction of Muhammad, drawn, painted, sculpted, etc. is forbidden according to the Islamic faith and thereby offensive to Muslims. I don't think it's kowtowing to be respectful of another's belief system. I feel that "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" is wrong, childish and needlessly provocative.


MATT DAVIES:
The Journal News (N.Y.)

Unless he was ousted in a primary upset, concocted then shorted his own derivative or is accepting responsibility for the oil slick in the Gulf, I was not planning to draw Mohammad this week, no.

As a political cartoonist I don't really see the point in group actions poking at others' religious beliefs for sport alone. I signed the petition simply because I strongly support the right of anyone to draw whatever they want without fear of threats of violence. There are already some not-very-clever Mohammad cartoons in existence. I don't see any genuinely intelligent reason why I should add one more to the stack -- especially when there are so many matters of consequence piling up on our drawing boards these days.


MARK FIORE:
SFGate.com et al.

I think every day should be draw Muhammad day, or draw Jesus day or draw Moses day. These prophet and messiah types can handle themselves -- I really don't think they're concerned about what cartoonists draw. Funny thing is, I didn't even know until [the other day that this is] "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day," but was already planning to do an animation dealing with the latest "South Park" issue and other recent attacks. Turns out my animation will be published on "EDMD," even though that wasn't my initial intent.

I'm a little squeamish about an organized day when everybody is supposed to draw Muhammad, mainly because it could easily cross the line into an organized effort to poke fun at a particular religion. In my mind, it really comes down to how a particular cartoon handles Muhammad specifically and Islam in general.I've drawn Muhammad before and will draw him again, although I'll leave Thursday's cartoon up to the viewer.


DAVID HORSEY:
Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Obviously -- having signed the petition condemning the threats against the "South Park" creators -- I believe threats or acts of violence against any artists who are exercising their right of free expression are utterly wrong and unjustifiable, no matter whose beliefs or feelings or culture have been lampooned. Muhammad is a pivotal historical figure. Commenting about his influence on our world today is not something for which anyone should suffer retribution.

I'm not going to be drawing Muhammad this week, though, for two reasons. First, I seldom participate in staged editorial events, whether it is Earth Day or any other worthy cause. Something about these coordinated efforts makes me uneasy as a journalist and as an independent commentator. Second, I see no reason to purposely offend non-radical Muslims who take their beliefs seriously. When the right time to portray Muhammad arises, I will exercise my right to do it, but it will be my call. I'm not big on choreographed punditry.


NIKAHANG KOWSAR:
New York Times Syndicate et al.

Actually I won't draw the prophet for many reasons. One is that it's not the best time to do so. Many people in the Islamic community have nothing negative with seeing a cartoon of the prophet, but a big majority cannot handle this matter. And if a Muslim does this, there will be a Fatwa issued against him.

The other thing is that I just started drawing Grand Ayatollahs a few months ago. I wasn't sure to do so, but I asked one of them if he thought it was the time to break the taboo. He said it was okay.

The problem is I believe we have the right to offend, but when offense is see as "insult" it might be a bad time to draw and offensive cartoon.


MIKE LUCKOVICH:
Atlanta Journal-Constitution

In this instance,I'm not going to draw Muhammad. I wouldn't insult any religion's prophet to make a point about free speech. if an issue arises and depicting Muhammad in a cartoon about that issue makes sense, I will. However, when putting a religious icon in a cartoon, you risk overwhelming the idea you're trying to get across in the cartoon, because readers can't get past the icon's depiction. I've done numerous cartoons on the catholic pedophilia scandal, but I've never used Jesus in one of those cartoons, because it would overwhelm my message. That said, I condemn those who threaten violence.

(original illustration by Molly Norris)

MOLLY NORRIS:
Seattle's City Arts et al.

If I had wanted my one-off cartoon to be the basis for a worldwide movement to draw Mohammed, then at this moment I should be thrilled. But instead I am horrified!

My one-off cartoon that was specifically about Comedy Central's behavior vs. Revolution Muslim's threat leading to a slippery slope of censorship in America is not good for a long-term plan. The results have shown to be vitriolic and worse, offensive to Muslims who had nothing to do with the censorship issue I was inspired to draw about in the first place.

I attended a local Seerah Conference that was started by a local mosque four years ago after the Danish cartoon debacle. The folks there had to babysit me because I was so upset by this whole viral phenomenon. ... I have spoken with some women at that mosque about possibly making short documentaries about areas where they see there may be a need to help non-Muslims understand their culture. These could be both entertaining and informative -- I hope it happens!

Also: the nicest emails I have gotten during these weeks since my cartoon went viral are from Muslims. I joined "Against Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" and folks from there write to me.


MIKE PETERS:
Dayton Daily News

It's really amazing when the Danish cartoon thing happened. One of the editorial writers at my paper said that he thought we journalist should respect other peoples' religious beliefs. I told him that was B.S. Free speech and religious views have nothing in common.

I grew up Catholic. I've been condemned many times by certain priests when I would draw the pope in a bad light. Or when I would criticize the church over their horrendous views on women. I've drawn Jesus many times to make a political point about the hypocrisy of the religious right. I've never drawn Jesus in a bad way. Jesus has never been bad in my mind, Muhammad has never been bad.

When the Danish cartoon thing happened, I said to my wife: "Maybe I should do a picture of Muhammad in one of my cartoons." She said: "Have you ever done a Muhammad cartoon in the 45 years of drawing?" I said, "No." She said, "So why do one now?" I said: "Because they tell me I can't." And I realized that that was no reason to do it. Or to do a picture of Muhammad just to get people mad. But to do a picture of Muhammad to get a point across on the hypocrisy of the radical Muslims I believe could be legitimate reason. And I may do one -- but not today ,


TED RALL:
Universal Press Syndicate

If there is support within the AAEC for "Everybody Draw Muhammed Day," it is statistically insignificant. While most AAEC members vigorously support free speech, many are uncomfortable with the idea of provoking the anger of devout Muslims with no other intent than to provoke anger. When there is a legitimate satirical and/or political case to make, few of us shy away from controversy -- but this seems more like a frat prank than standing up for free expression. It also doesn't help that the person who thought of the idea didn't approach other cartoonists about it and indeed disavowed it herself.

I suspect I will be among the overwhelming majority of editorial cartoonists in letting this week pass without a Mohammed drawing.

For the record, I did do a Mohammed cartoon a few years back--as a critique of the newspapers who thought that reprinting them was brave--but my syndicate censored it. They rarely do that, but this was one of those times.


SCOTT STANTIS:
Chicago Tribune

I am not much of a joiner. The "Draw Muhammad Day" was an interesting idea and I was disappointed that the woman organizing it felt compelled to drop it. ... As an exercise and example in free speech it has some merit and I totally understand the underlying motivation behind it.

As a practicing Catholic I have been deeply offended by innumerable despicable renderings of Jesus Christ [and] the Virgin Mary. I can say that at no time did I wish harm to the artist. I could protest or draw a cartoon about it. Even boycott the sponsor of the offending art.

The "Draw Muhammad" Day is a demonstration in the worst impulse for some editorial cartoonists. Shock for shock's sake. I try and make my work have more depth then that. All of that being said I reserve the right to draw the prophet Muhammad at any time I feel it is warranted. Any jihadist with a problem with that can shove it up their fatwa.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 10:48 am
An excerpt to the Huffington Post column I linked to earlier:

Quote:
The goal, according to the website hosting the endeavor, is to defend free speech by showing Muslims that artists "don't back down" when threatened.

But the fact is that millions of Muslim-Americans -- many of whom have known about South Park caricatures of Muhammad for years -- behaved exactly the way free speech advocates wanted them to: by remaining silent or expressing their feelings peacefully. The handful of thugs at a New York-based site called Revolution Muslim -- who, by the way, are unwelcome in every New York mosque for their extremist rantings -- were the only exceptions. And now these Muslim-Americans are being subject to mass insult as thanks for their respect of South Park's free speech rights.

Let's think for a moment about what is motivating the people behind Draw Muhammad Day. Is it revulsion at religiously motivated death threats? I don't think so. Just this week, Congressman Bart Stupak wrote that he had received so many death threats (that's actual phoned-in threats, not just one passive-aggressive blog post) that he was advised to beef up his security. It's safe to assume that most of those death threats were fueled by religious fervor, but since the religion in question isn't Islam, it gets a pass.

Maybe it is to show all Muslims that attacks on free speech won't be tolerated. But the fact is that over the course of 10 years, millions of Muslims respected the free speech of South Park and didn't even lodge a polite complaint with Comedy Central. What exactly are we being punished for? Our inability to enforce a zero-tolerance policy and prevent a blogger from hitting the Enter key?

If free speech advocates want to target someone, why not target Comedy Central, who exhibited self-censorship in the face of a mere web post? Or better yet, why not target the Revolution Muslim group, who issued the warnings that brought this whole crisis to bear? (I know plenty of Muslims who would join in this effort.)

In other words, target the people responsible for sullying free speech, not those who respected it.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:01 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

The difference between the people who are choosing to participate in this, and the original artist, comes from the fact that the original artists' message carried satire and political meaning, whereas the copycat messages carry an altogether different meaning; a more adversarial one, one intended to send a message that leads not to reflection but anger.

I agree about the message of the original creators (Matt & Trey). I think however that Muslims are no less intelligent or introspective than us enlightened Americans.

I think this does lead to reflection, and even if assumed to be adversarial, it opens a dialog. That dialog, even if heated, has great potential I believe. As much as this may seem like chum in the water for extremists, it is also a open mic invite for moderate Muslims to step up and demand control amongst the Islamic community.

I don't think that drawing Muhammad is respectful. I don't think Piss Christ is respectful. I don't think Matt & Trey's depiction of Mormons, Scientologists, or Atheists are respectful. We don't assume that tom Cruise is going to start building bombs to blow up Viacom. Tom Cruise is perhaps the most made-fun-of person in all of South Park either by virtue of his weird character or his religious views.

If I'm to understand the objection here, it seems that Muslims are going to somehow react differently to my illustration than Matt & Trey's. In the wake of the episode airing, moderate Muslims didn't flock to radicalism. Why now is this such a fear?

Granted, I think the event is stupid. I'd rather the point be you CAN draw Muhammad any day, not you SHOULD draw Muhammad on a specific day. A person's motivation should be their own.

A
R
T
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:08 am
@failures art,
Quote:
I agree about the message of the original creators (Matt & Trey). I think however that Muslims are no less intelligent or introspective than us enlightened Americans.


Let me ask: how well could you follow a nuanced and detailed conversation about issues in Pashtun, or in Farsi, or in any other language that you don't know at all? This is what I worry about. From the outside, it seems offensive for no good reason.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:15 am
"Draw Mohammad Day" wasn't an order, it was an invitation to participate or not participate. Those who feel compelled will, others won't. Reasons can be found to support either decision.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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