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Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:49 pm
@Thomas,
With all due respect, Thomas; this is a thinly veiled copout.
Thomas wrote:
because it was management that actually shut up the authors
Fanatic's Death Threats resulted in a de facto state of censorship. Full stop.

I don't wish to offend a Billion innocents either… which is why I'll disclaim the purpose of my posting on FaceBook, along with an apology to the vast majority of Muslims who are not fanatics... just as I have adequately disclaimed my motivation here. The fanatics on the other hand, can kiss my infidelic ass.

Nice work Deb! (And that one’s even a tad bit on the offensive side)


dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:02 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Not my work...I quoted whose it was.


Offensive? Damn. I thought it was just clever and had nothing intrinsically offensive in it at ALL.

Dammit.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:04 pm
@dlowan,
You just need to crop out the bomb LOL.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:32 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Keep patting yourselves on the back and letting each other know just how free you are, guys.

I guess a big part of 'freedom' is, in fact, freedom to be an Ass.

Cycloptichorn
You're damn right it is! That is a very big part of freedom. That's why the KKK and any other asshole who wants to step up to the mic can assemble and speak and if you can't understand why that's important; you've never tried.

The S.C. of this land ruled that a prominent religious figure (Falwell?) in this country could be depicted receiving a blowjob from his mother, and there wasn't a damn thing he could do to stop it. Not even with a Civil Suit. But you don't care about the truth, or why it is what it is, or you wouldn't be making be making such sweeping general statements, absent any reason or factual basis.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:36 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

You just need to crop out the bomb LOL.


There is no BOMB!

It just looks like a handsome fella with a turban thingy. With a tassel.

That's NOT supposed to be Mohammed as a bomb, is it?

Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:36 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
First Islamic terrorists, now the KKK...isnt anything sacred to YOU people ? Very Happy
Quote:
But you don't care about the truth
You have assumed you are the guardian of the truth...I dont hold anyone in such high esteem.
OCCOM BILL
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:38 pm
@dlowan,
What IrishK said. Not a terrible picture, really, as it is a manipulation of one of the Danish Cartoonist's original images that got this whole ball rolling long ago. It is most certainly as relevant as it is offensive. (So don't feel bad) Cheers!
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:38 pm
@BorisKitten,
BorisKitten wrote:

Why?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:38 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Keep patting yourselves on the back and letting each other know just how free you are, guys.

I guess a big part of 'freedom' is, in fact, freedom to be an Ass.

Cycloptichorn
You're damn right it is! That is a very big part of freedom. That's why the KKK and any other asshole who wants to step up to the mic can assemble and speak and if you can't understand why that's important; you've never tried.


I do understand why that's important. And I would never seek to limit your ability to say whatever you like, Bill.

Quote:
Snip

...But you don't care about the truth, or why it is what it is, or you wouldn't be making be making such sweeping general statements, absent any reason or factual basis.


I do care about both the truth and why it's important. I have never argued that you or anyone else should be limited in any way from saying whatever you want.

I merely argue that the flip side of freedom is responsibility, and that people who engage in speech designed to be inflammatory are perhaps not considering this before engaging in their actions.

I don't know which sweeping general statement I've made that you disagree with. You agreed with my above statement.... you just don't like being called an ass for engaging in your protected behavior.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:39 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Irishk wrote:

You just need to crop out the bomb LOL.


There is no BOMB!

It just looks like a handsome fella with a turban thingy. With a tassel.

That's NOT supposed to be Mohammed as a bomb, is it?




Yes, it is. It's an ASCII-ish rendering of a famous cartoon showing Mohammed with a bomb in his turban.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:44 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

First Islamic terrorists, now the KKK...isnt anything sacred to YOU people ? Very Happy
I'd draw the line right where it’s been drawn if it was up to me. You can speak about ideas so unpopular, it causes a riot; but you can't call for a riot. You can burn an object, even the flag in effigy; but you cannot terrorize a man by burning a cross in his front yard. It is only by guaranteeing unpopular speech that you can guarantee your own will not be censored. I've read enough of your posts, btw, to opine you should appreciate such rights. Wink
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:45 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
But you don't care about the truth, ...


Absolutely priceless, coming from your lips, Bill.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:46 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:
With all due respect, Thomas; this is a thinly veiled copout.

No it's not. The South Park authors would have gone ahead with the episode, had it been for the death threats alone. It was Comedy Central who pulled the plug on them. Since you're an Objectivist, I could understand it if confronting pointy-haired businesses causes you too much painful cognitive dissonance. But I'm confident you'll eventually get over it and focus your activist energies on the people who committed the actual censoring.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:52 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
but you cannot terrorize a man by burning a cross in his front yard
Why cant we terrorise him ? Why is making him twisted with anger and rage that he has been attacked any better than making him afraid he might be attacked ?
Quote:
I've read enough of your posts, btw, to opine you should appreciate such rights.
Because I believe some matters are better left without actions, it is better if they are discussed rather than physical action.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't know which sweeping general statement I've made that you disagree with. You agreed with my above statement.... you just don't like being called an ass for engaging in your protected behavior.
Nonsense. It bothers me not at all to be called an ass, no worries.

But for your edification: These are sweeping, general statements (punctuated in SEZ ME, since you were wondering where that came from.)

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I maintain that the only effect of this silly exercise is to make people feel better about themselves, and to further alienate moderate Muslims.
...
I maintain that this exercise is fatuous in nature and is purely self-gratifying. No greater good will come of it.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 05:58 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't know which sweeping general statement I've made that you disagree with. You agreed with my above statement.... you just don't like being called an ass for engaging in your protected behavior.
Nonsense. It bothers me not at all to be called an ass, no worries.

But for your edification: These are sweeping, general statements (punctuated in SEZ ME, since you were wondering where that came from.)

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I maintain that the only effect of this silly exercise is to make people feel better about themselves, and to further alienate moderate Muslims.
...
I maintain that this exercise is fatuous in nature and is purely self-gratifying. No greater good will come of it.

Cycloptichorn




Those 'sweeping generalizations' are my personal opinions. They don't need any further factual backup or argumentation whatsoever. And nothing about them - nothing - indicates that I 'don't care about the truth.'

The truth of the matter is that a bunch of people have gotten together and decided to act like assholes, because they can; and they want to prove that they can. There is no greater reasoning or purpose behind it. Just a bunch of people acting in a churlish fashion, for no good reason. Enjoy yourselves.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 06:02 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
With all due respect, Thomas; this is a thinly veiled copout.

No it's not. The South Park authors would have gone ahead with the episode, had it been for the death threats alone. It was Comedy Central who pulled the plug on them. Since you're an Objectivist, I could understand it if confronting pointy-haired businesses causes you too much painful cognitive dissonance. But I'm confident you'll eventually get over it and focus your activist energies on the people who committed the actual censoring.
Still weak Thomas. I signed the petition against that action as well, but you're apparently, intentionally ignoring the fact that you can NOT view this material because death threats were made. You're ignoring the fact that others who would like to stand by these artists in solidarity have pointed out they will not because they're afraid of the threats. That even the artist who thought up the scheme with a cartoon of her own, has since desperately tried to distance herself from it out of fear. De facto state of censorship IS what it is, and I don't know why you're not just sticking with your less-evil opinion, rather than deny this simple truth. Very much; not like you.
(Back to work for me.)
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 06:11 pm
Cyclo - Did you read what my old roommate had to say about this? I posted it a few pages back. He is a moderate Muslim and offered some incite.

I think you might be missing a big point here. Moderate Muslims aren't going to be as outraged as they are being portrayed. I'm offended on a rather frequent basis, and I'm mature enough to know it's not a green light for violence or radical action. If anything, it' usually a time for creating an open dialog.

Isn't it a bit insulting to assume that we can handle the criticism (or even mockery) and they (moderate Muslims) can't?

I made my point long ago in this thread. The censorship came from Viacom. I even posted their contact information in the thread.

Drawing Muhammad is not about making radicals reconsider if they think it should be allowed. It is to demonstrate that threats of violence are not effective at manipulation. I think to draw Muhammad on May 20th is stupid. I say do it whenever you wish, and I did.

I think you're correct about this event drawing a lot of anti-muslim idiots, and that's why I don't support the event and continue to support the action it calls for.

Not drawing Muhammad is much like not burning a bra. You're no less an advocate for free speech or feminism in either case. Making either action banned or mandatory however is a new form of bondage and control. I didn't draw Muhammad to make myself feel better, or to think that I raised the flag a little higher or some bullshit. This isn't about the USA.

A
R
T
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 06:16 pm
Bill - The censorship topic in this thread is an issue to take up with Viacom. We cannot blame the radicals for that. The issue here is not even about free speech, it's about manipulation through threats of violence. Free speech is only the selected weapon of choice to demonstrate the futility of trying to manipulate others.

A
R
T
BorisKitten
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 06:08 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
You're ignoring the fact that others who would like to stand by these artists in solidarity have pointed out they will not because they're afraid of the threats. That even the artist who thought up the scheme with a cartoon of her own, has since desperately tried to distance herself from it out of fear.

Several people on this thread are ignoring this fact.

It's not about Viacom's self-censorship any more. Read about it, if you wish to educate yourselves.
 

 
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