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Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

 
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:33 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Occom Bill wrote:
You asked for a reason to start drawing Muhammad despite having no previous desire to do so. Preserving those guys' right to work unencumbered, and encouraging them to do so, and drawing back the fanatic focus from a relative handful of artists provides a reason.

It wasn't the fanatics who encumbered Matt and Trey's work. By the artists' own accounts, they would have shown Muhammed anyway. It was Comedy Central's cowardly management who put their work back in the drawer. With this in mind, will you be satisfied if I punish Comedy Central management by not watching the Daily Show for a week? I assure you it's a sacrifice for me.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 10:17 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Occom Bill wrote:
You asked for a reason to start drawing Muhammad despite having no previous desire to do so. Preserving those guys' right to work unencumbered, and encouraging them to do so, and drawing back the fanatic focus from a relative handful of artists provides a reason.

It wasn't the fanatics who encumbered Matt and Trey's work. By the artists' own accounts, they would have shown Muhammed anyway. It was Comedy Central's cowardly management who put their work back in the drawer. With this in mind, will you be satisfied if I punish Comedy Central management by not watching the Daily Show for a week? I assure you it's a sacrifice for me.
And if Matt and/or Trey end up getting murdered, or having their houses burned; will you blame Comedy Central's cowardly management for that too? Very unlike you side-step the truth of a situation. The "cowardly victims" now bear sole responsiblity for the effects of fanatics’ Death Threats? Bizarre leap of logic, that.

dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 10:22 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
"evil" is a social construct, there is no such critter as "evil" in nature.
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 10:48 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
"evil" is a social construct, there is no such critter as "evil" in nature.
So you've now repeatedly said, but so what? No philosophical explanation will render an entity like NAMBLA less evil. And unless you’re suggesting humans aren’t natural, you’re ignoring some pretty damned evil human conditions. Not every evil bastard can be explained away as a product of nurture.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 11:13 am
Quote:
Simpletons

by John Cole

The Fonzi of Freedom:

http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/18/get-ready-for-everyone-draw-mo


“Why We’re Having an Everybody Draw Mohammed Contest on Thursday May 20”


Because you’re idiots.

Anyone who thinks this will strike a global blow for freedom or will in any way change the way crazy Islamic radicals feel about cartoons of Mohammed seriously should just step back from the bottle. Although an “Everybody draw a glibertrian day” could be entertaining, and if this keeps the 101st Chairborne busy instead of advocating for the invasion/carpet-bombing of Iran, I fully support the endeavor.

*** Update ***

Forgot to mention they had to shut down the comments because of “gratuitously insulting imagery”. HOOCOODANODE!

Clowns.


http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/05/19/simpletons/

Many times, you can measure the quality of your argument by seeing who lumps in with you, and honestly, it's a bunch of anti-Muslim idiots on the right wing who are supporting this.

I maintain that the only effect of this silly exercise is to make people feel better about themselves, and to further alienate moderate Muslims. The amount of tone-deafness displayed by many here is amazing.

And Bill, spare me your moral superiority/'if you don't support this, you don't support free speech'/'if you don't support this, you are bowing to terrorism' bullshit, I've already heard it and it doesn't need repeating.

I maintain that this exercise is fatuous in nature and is purely self-gratifying. No greater good will come of it.

Cycloptichorn
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 11:33 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
you’re ignoring some pretty damned evil human conditions.


This is that great conundrum that is you, Bill. You get all puffy and bloated about your favorite issues but you studiously ignore the crimes of the US government and the numerous crimes of US soldiers ... more freefire zones in Iraq or wherever US soldiers land and it's all ignored by freedom fighters/evil bastards like you.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 11:46 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Many times, you can measure the quality of your argument by seeing who lumps in with you...
Okay Okie. I guess that kind of idiocy is easier than actually trying to justify your bare naked ipse-dixitism.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 11:48 am
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Many times, you can measure the quality of your argument by seeing who lumps in with you...
Okay Okie. I guess that kind of idiocy is easier than actually trying to justify your bare naked ipse-dixitism.


I've already demonstrated that your argument fails on it's own merits. The fact that a bunch of mouth-breather anti-Muslims agree with you is just icing on the cake.

I also do not believe that I committed ipse-dixit in any way. You'll have to be more specific if you are going to throw around allegations of Logical Fallacies with me, Bill.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 12:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I maintain that the only effect of this silly exercise is to make people feel better about themselves, and to further alienate moderate Muslims.
Cycloptichorn


What I said...
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 01:12 pm
Elton John is performing in Morocco this weekend. Since that country is an Islamic state, there's been some controversy about his being invited to perform. Some are calling for a 'ban' of his performance, a form of protest which makes sense to me...boycotting something with which you aren't in agreement seems infinitely more reasonable than death threats.

If you wish, you can read the article here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=10668034
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 01:15 pm
@Irishk,
so islam is against lame performers with bad hair pieces?

who knew Confused
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 01:17 pm
@djjd62,
Just the bad hair piece LOL.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  6  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 01:36 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Occom Bill wrote:
And if Matt and/or Trey end up getting murdered, or having their houses burned; will you blame Comedy Central's cowardly management for that too?

That wasn't the point I replied to -- you're moving goalposts now. My reply to your new point is that if and when Matt and Trey get murdered, my judgment will stand exposed as poor, and I will apologize and repent for it.

Right now though, I can only make my best effort to weigh the interests of everyone involved. By my count, they fall into three categories: First, the interest of a billion non-fanatic Muslims in not being offended gratuitously; second, the interest of two authors in expressing themselves freely; and third, the interest of two authors in not getting murdered. #1 is a serious argument against actions like "everyone-draw-Mohammed day", #2 is off-target, because it was management that actually shut up the authors, and #3 is better-addressed by giving bodyguards to endangered writers -- if and when the threat becomes serious. On balance, then, "everyone-draw-Mohammed day" falls short for me.

I have contributed to Ayan Hirsi Ali's defense fund, and would pitch in for a similar fund if the threat got serious and someone passed the hat around for Matt and Trey. But I won't engage in every silliness that some sicko wants to impose a death threat on. I prefer to choose my own ways of being silly, thank you very much.
BorisKitten
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 03:56 pm
Quote:
[Irishk] ... boycotting something with which you aren't in agreement seems infinitely more reasonable than death threats.


I completely agree, Irishk.

For goodness' sakes, folks, we aren't talking here about killing Muslims, or threatening them with violence.

We are talking about drawing What They Say Should Not Be Drawn in the United States.

In this country, we can draw whatever we like. I make this stand because I want people in this country to continue to draw whatever they like, whether it offends any religious group or not.

And allow me to point out, yet again, that Muslims have drawn Muhammad (and very well) for hundreds of years. Google it, please, to see the drawings/paintings/etc.

Please pardon me if I'm wrong, but the US was, in large part (not entirely, no) founded on religious freedom: We can practice whatever religion we like, in any way we like, as long as we do NOT try to tell others that they must practice/believe as we do.

I will state clearly here that I am NOT Anti-Muslim. I AM ANTI-DEATH THREATS, especially when those threats are made in a country that was at least partially based on "Free Speech", and that "free speech" had a great deal to do with religion when the country was founded.

I believe that the average Muslim is just as good as your average American. Their religion is fine with me as long as they don't threaten to kill people over their religious beliefs!

When they start death threats against cartoonists, yes, I am willing to make bad drawings. I am NOT willing to make death threats, or to even swear at people. (Why? Because they are people, like me.)

I do not watch South Park. I do not watch TV at all, and have not in the past 11 years (Why? Because I find the commercials insulting, even offensive.)

If you do NOT think Muslims carrying signs saying "Butcher Those Who Insult Islam!" is alarming, you are free to NOT participate tomorrow.

BorisKitten
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:03 pm
@Thomas,
Please read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Muhammad_Day
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:12 pm
@BorisKitten,
Since you are all doomed simply because you are infidels, BK, it's kind of pointless to add another death penalty crime to the other or others.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:13 pm
Quote:
In a May 18, 2010 article, "Why We're Having an Everybody Draw Mohammed Contest on Thursday May 20", Reason editor Nick Gillespie explained: "No one has a right to an audience or even to a sympathetic hearing, much less an engaged audience. But no one should be beaten or killed or imprisoned simply for speaking their mind or praying to one god as opposed to the other or none at all or getting on with the small business of living their life in peaceful fashion. If we cannot or will not defend that principle with a full throat, then we deserve to choke on whatever jihadists of all stripes can force down our throats."[41] Gillespie asserted, "Our Draw Mohammed contest is not a frivolous exercise of hip, ironic, hoolarious sacrilege toward a minority religion in the United States (though even that deserves all the protection that the most serioso political commentary commands). It's a defense of what is at the core of a society that is painfully incompetent at delivering on its promise of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights."[41]

BorisKitten
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:16 pm
@BorisKitten,
And more:
Quote:
The idea for the May 20 protest received support from Kathleen Parker, an opinion columnist for The Washington Post: "Americans love their free speech and have had enough of those who think they can dictate the limits of that fundamental right. [...] Draw to any heart's discontent. It's a free country. For now."[29] The idea also received support from prominent bloggers and bloggers on prominent websites, such as Michael C. Moynihan at Reason magazine's "Hit & Run" blog, who encouraged his readers to send him their drawings.[81] Moynihan stated he planned to select some of his favorite depictions of Muhammad from the protest movement, and then add them to the Reason.com website.[23][81] Moynihan commented, "In the South Park episode that started all this, Buddha does lines of coke and there was an episode where Cartman started a Christian rock band that sang very homo-erotic songs. Yet there is one religious figure we can't make fun of. The point of the episode that started the controversy is that celebrities wanted Muhammad's power not to be ridiculed. How come non-Muslims aren't allowed to make jokes?"[23] Moynihan noted, "Any time you cave into terrorism, it emboldens extremists," and posited that the decision of Comedy Central to enact self-censorship of the South Park episode would have the impact of worsening the situation.[23]

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:30 pm
@BorisKitten,
Worth 1000 Words wrote:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:32 pm
Keep patting yourselves on the back and letting each other know just how free you are, guys.

I guess a big part of 'freedom' is, in fact, freedom to be an Ass.

Cycloptichorn
 

 
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