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Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 05:59 pm
@JTT,
Just in case anyone else on this thread is as ignorant as JTT, as to why I suggested our founding fathers felt that way:
Our founding fathers wrote:
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

The signers of the Declaration represented the new states as follows:

New Hampshire
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:28 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
You are suggesting I drifted (while running your mouth about Nicaragua)? Choosing to stay on point when a troll shows up is not a tangent.


No, I'm telling you you drifted because you did. If you'll note, there was nothing about Nicaragua in the post to you.

I didn't tell you that they were stupid ideas or that they shouldn't be defended or spread. What I suggested in my post to you was that it's really stupid to suggest that these ideas are god/creator ordained.

It matters not at all that you can produce documents which only enforce such an idiotic bit of tripe. That only makes it worse. As if there aren't enough Pat Robertsons/Jerry Falwells around.

The troll thing is as stupid as the god created these rights notion. You know, Bill, that freedom of expression thing that you're getting all self righteous about.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:31 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
Just in case anyone else on this thread is as ignorant as JTT, as to why I suggested our founding fathers felt that way:


I suggested that you use your brain and not continue to spew ignorant nonsense just because some ignorant assholes sought to use that same nonsense for political propaganda.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:39 pm
@JTT,
This was the idiocy you picked:
JTT wrote:

Quote:
granted by the creator according to our founding fathers,


And you believe this tripe, Bill?
Out of this paragraph:
Quote:
I can certainly understand your desire to be respectful of the vast majority of Muslims who are not terrorists, just as I'm sure you'd also desire to be respectful of black Americans by denying the KKK the right to voice their putrid hatred. But alas, that protection cannot extend so far as to deny the KKK it's right exist, to gather, to demonstrate, or to speak. These are fundamental, inalienable constitutional rights, granted by the creator according to our founding fathers, and the right to these freedoms transends any thoughts of niceties.
As if I didn't adequately attribute a factual notion... and then had the nerve to accuse me of straying off topic by sticking to my freedom of expression shtick on a thread about same?

You're not a troll for having unpopular ideas; you are a troll because you just look for activity on a thread to blabber on about whatever's on your mind, and it is almost never topic related.
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:42 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
And this concludes tonight's episode of Dancing with the Trolls.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:46 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
And this concludes tonight's episode of Dancing with the Trolls.
Arn't you just sooooo noble and better than the rest of us....
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  4  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Death threats are almost never carried out...


That should be a comfort to Matt and Trey...and that Swedish guy whose house was set on fire.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:55 pm
@Irishk,
Quote:
That should be a comfort to Matt and Trey...and that Swedish guy whose house was set on fire.
A house= a life????

I was bullied for a few years in school, at some point I wised up and realized that bullies need to be confronted. Sometimes this carries a cost.

You learn a lot about a man by how he reacts to being pushed, that is why we guys push each other around as SOP.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:56 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
On and on and on and on you go, Bill, but you never answered this question,

And you believe this tripe, Bill?

Why did you put such nonsense in? It is precisely this kind of nonsense that causes a large part of the problem. Why didn't you point out that these guys were out to lunch, shrewd propagandists, that the ideas were grand but hardly handed down from the mount.

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  6  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Arson can, and has resulted in death. What are you trying to say, it's alright to burn down a house if nobody is killed?
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:32 pm
@roger,
Of course it is not all right. Sometimes though you have to make a stand even if it has a cost, sometimes even if it costs you your life. There are some things worth dying for, and a whole more that are worth losing a house over. Perspective, and the courage to do the right thing, is what i am calling for.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:52 pm
@squinney,
Quote:
to me being offended implies some sort of indignation, which in turn relates to pride. So, how can someone damaging a thing that belongs to me hurt my pride?
Because deep down we have a sense of our own worth and that involves respect from others. Things that I classify as belonging to you include a sense diginity and not being ridiculed for your religion, any more than being ridiculed for your sex or race.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:07 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
This was the idiocy you picked:


No, that's the type of stupidity that you picked. It's the same kind of stupidity that Glen Beck uses; "the finger of god is on the Declaration of Independence".
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 10:15 pm
@BorisKitten,
BorisKitten wrote:
I do have a problem with people threatening to kill other people over cartoons in the US.

So do I -- but on the other hand, I never had any urge to draw anything, or draw Muhammed, so why should I start now? Because some fanatic morons try to make a taboo out of it? I think I'll pass.

BorisKitten wrote:
The point of "Draw Muhammad Day" is, I think, for US folk to stand up and say, "In This country, we have the right to free speech, regardless of your religion, regardless of your death threats."

Edit: Reminds me of Monty Python's take on the right to wear condoms.



Edit again: Here's a transcript, for those of you who are on dialup:

Mr Blackitt: Look at them, bloody Catholics. Filling the bloody
world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed.

Mrs Blackitt: What are we dear?

Mr Blackitt: Protestant, and fiercely proud of it...

Mrs Blackitt: Why do they have so many children...?

Mr Blackitt: Because every time they have sexual intercourse they
have to have a baby.

Mrs Blackitt: But it's the same with us, Harry.

Mr Blackitt
: What d'you mean...?

Mrs Blackitt: Well I mean we've got two children and we've had
sexual intercourse twice.

Mr Blackitt: That's not the point... We *could* have it any time we
wanted.

Mrs Blackitt: Really?

Mr Blackitt: Oh yes. And, what's more, because we don't believe in
all that Papist claptrap we can take precautions.

Mrs Blackitt: What, you mean lock the door...?

Mr Blackitt: No no, I mean, because we are members of the
Protestant Reformed Church which successfully challenged the
autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid-sixteenth century,
we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue.

Mrs Blackitt: What do you mean?

Mr Blackitt: I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with
you...

Mrs Blackitt: Oh, yes... Harry...

Mr Blackitt: And by wearing a rubber sheath over my old feller I
could ensure that when I came off... you would not be
impregnated.

Mrs Blackitt: Ooh!

Mr Blackitt
: That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's
why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for
anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right
to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his
protest up to the church door in 1517, he may not have
realised the full significance of what he was doing. But four
hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear
whatever I want on my John Thomas. And Protestantism doesn't
stop at the simple condom. Oh no! I can wear French Ticklers
if I want.

Mrs Blackitt: You what?

Mr Blackitt: French Ticklers... Black Mambos... Crocodile Ribs...
Sheaths that are designed not only to protect but also to
enhance the stimulation of sexual congress...

Mrs Blackitt: Have you got one?

Mr Blackitt
: Have I got one? Well no... But I can go down the road
any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up
high, and say in a loud steady voice: 'Harry I want you to
sell me a *condom*. In fact today I think I'll have a French
Tickler, for I am a Protestant...'

Mrs Blackitt: Well why don't you?

Mr Blackitt: But they... [He points at the stream of children still
pouring past the house.]... they cannot. Because their church
never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages, and the
domination of alien episcopal supremacy!
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:35 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
The point of "Draw Muhammad Day" is, I think, for US folk to stand up and say, "In This country, we have the right to free speech, regardless of your religion, regardless of your death threats."


Erm....I think it's for folk in the WORLD to say that....barring Islamic theocracies, I guess.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:32 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

BorisKitten wrote:
I do have a problem with people threatening to kill other people over cartoons in the US.

So do I -- but on the other hand, I never had any urge to draw anything, or draw Muhammed, so why should I start now? Because some fanatic morons try to make a taboo out of it? I think I'll pass.
Do you enjoy Matt and Trey's work?
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 02:22 pm
I'm not a huge South Park fan. I'm even less a fan of censorship through intimidation and fear, though.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 08:02 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Occom Bill wrote:
Do you enjoy Matt and Trey's work?

Generally speaking, yes.
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:02 am
@Thomas,
You asked for a reason to start drawing Muhammad despite having no previous desire to do so. Preserving those guys' right to work unencumbered, and encouraging them to do so, and drawing back the fanatic focus from a relative handful of artists provides a reason.

Perhaps that's not compelling enough to you, but on some level, you do have a dog in this fight. (So does everyone else who is interested in blocking the encroachment of Sharia Law.) In many countries; this identical tactic is used to keep women in Burkas.

http://generalbrock.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ishr-burka1.jpg?w=450
BorisKitten
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:25 am
Reminder: Draw Muhammad Day is tomorrow.

Thunderf00t's latest below:

0 Replies
 
 

 
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