10
   

Not Terrorists?

 
 
littlek
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:31 pm
They were preparing to do religious battle. They were planning the unprovoked killing of policemen. They were planning to kill more at the funeral service that would follow with hand grenades and roadside bombs. They are preparing for a battle with the anti-christ. All of this fueled by religious extremism.

They were set free on bail, under house arrest. If they believed in Islam instead of Christianity you can bet your patootie they'd rot in jail.

Dictionary. com definition of terrorism:
Quote:
ter·ror·ism
   /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Show Spelled[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA "noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


From the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8658604.stm
Quote:
.....They are said to belong to a Michigan-based militia called the Hutaree.

It is alleged they planned to kill a police officer in Michigan and then stage a second attack on the funeral, using landmines and roadside bombs.....

....The nine have been charged with conspiracy to commit sedition and attempting to use weapons of mass destruction.

A website in the name of the Hutaree group shows video footage of military-style training exercises and describes themselves as "Christian warriors".

A statement on the website says the group are preparing to defend themselves upon the arrival of the Antichrist.
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:37 pm
You got that right.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:59 pm
@edgarblythe,
Yep.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 06:11 pm
@littlek,
LOL poor whining Christians, sorry it would seem that the government case is as weak as my wife coffee.

From my understanding, it would seem that an agent of the government was a driving force behind those plots that seem not to go must beyond words.

Similar to plots to blow up draft boards in my youth where a government agent would suggest the deed and provide the explosives.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 07:02 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:
They were set free on bail, under house arrest. If they believed in Islam instead of Christianity you can bet your patootie they'd rot in jail.

Indeed, half of the US Congress -- Republicans and 'moderate' Democrats like Lieberman -- would raise hell that you shouldn't even get to see a judge who possibly could release you on bail. And hey, while we're at it, forget their due process rights as well. A comparison with the Times Square bomber is instructive here:

Today's New York Times wrote:
The suspect, Faisal Shahzad, was interrogated without initially being read his Miranda rights under a public safety exception, and provided what the F.B.I. called “valuable intelligence and evidence.”

After investigators determined there was no imminent threat to be headed off, Mr. Shahzad was later read his rights to remain silent, but he waived them and continued talking, the F.B.I. said. Authorities charged him as a civilian on Tuesday, but postponed plans to bring him to court.

The handling of Mr. Shahzad touched off the same sort of argument that followed the attempted Christmas Day bombing of a passenger jet bound for Detroit. Some Republicans urged the Obama administration to interrogate Mr. Shahzad without affording him Miranda rights and to classify him as an enemy combatant, which would allow authorities to detain him indefinitely. But Democrats said his quick arrest and his reported confession showed the system can respond to threats of terrorism without resorting to extraordinary tactics.

Source
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 07:30 pm
@littlek,
good point. I hadn't made the connection
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 10:46 pm
snaps*

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Always Eleven to him
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 11:31 pm
@BillRM,
But at least these people are getting a trial (in a United States court, with all the constitutional protections the process offers) where someone can decide just how weak the government's case is.

That's more than anyone can say for the "enemy combatants" being held indefinitely.

The last administration wasn't willing to grant rights (even to U.S. citizens communicating with people overseas -- see the Terrorist Surveillance Program), even though 43 and his cronies would be the first to crow about how the United States does it best. Well, if the US does "it" best, why not put its justice system to the test?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 03:46 am
@Always Eleven to him,
Quote:
That's more than anyone can say for the "enemy combatants" being held indefinitely.


Not the same situation. as non-citizens taken on foreign soil they have very weak claims to the American court system.

That had been the case since WW2 and the Supreme Court rejecting the right to appeal a military death sentence by a Japanese General to the US court system.

Second, a President have great emergency powers during times of crisis’s such as moving the whole Japanese-American population citizens and non-citizens alike into camps away from the West coast during WW2.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 04:51 pm
@littlek,
Quote:
...They were set free on bail, under house arrest. If they believed in Islam instead of Christianity you can bet your patootie they'd rot in jail.


Yep, I suspect you're absolutely right about that, k.

Seems different rules apply for different varieties of terrorists. I guess the home-grown variety are less dangerous? Neutral
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 04:59 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
From my understanding, it would seem that an agent of the government was a driving force behind those plots that seem not to go must beyond words.

Similar to plots to blow up draft boards in my youth where a government agent would suggest the deed and provide the explosives.


big deal, it's no different than when the cops sting somebody looking to put a hit on their spouse or other person, i have little to know love for government but if somebody came to me and said, "hey, let's get some guns and bombs and start a civil war" i'd say good luck with that, count me out

if i went along with it (even if it didn't go to fruition), i'd expect some repercussion
littlek
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 05:28 pm
@msolga,
MsO, I guess the judge never heard of a guy named Timothy McVeigh....
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 05:49 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
big deal, it's no different than when the cops sting somebody looking to put a hit on their spouse or other person, i have little to know love for government but if somebody came to me and said, "hey, let's get some guns and bombs and start a civil war" i'd say good luck with that, count me out


Sorry but talk is talk and only in very very narrow limits can talk by itself be a crime.

If a cop buy a groups of guys some beer and get them to talk about going on a rape and murder spree that is not a crime.

Now if they went and purchase ropes and duck tape to bind the women they was planning on raping and murdering that would be a crime unless it was the cop or government agent who purchase the material in question and pointed them in the direction of this kind of a crime.

Seem the government is very dirt here and that why they are out of jail at the moment.

Oh in the case of a for hire murder string you will take note that they always make a point to give the person many chances to back down and the person have to come to the cop not the cop saying if I was you I would murder that bitch and I will do it for you for 5,000 dollars.



0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 08:36 pm
DETROIT " Federal prosecutors said Wednesday they're appealing the release of nine jailed Michigan militia members charged with wanting to overthrow the government, warning that freeing the defendants could endanger the public.

The U.S. attorney's office met a deadline to declare whether it would appeal a judge's order that releases the nine until trial. Prosecutors also urged U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts to extend her order that stops the defendants from going home while the appeal is pending.

"If the defendants were to flee or to cause even a fraction of the harm they have repeatedly and fervently spoken of and planned for, no ruling by the (appeals court) could undo that damage," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet wrote.

The members of the southern Michigan militia, called Hutaree, are charged with conspiracy to commit sedition, or rebellion, against the government and the attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.

Authorities have said the group planned to kill a police officer and then bomb a subsequent funeral.

Prosecutors claim the suspects are too dangerous to be released from jail. But Roberts on Monday ruled they could go home with many restrictions. She suspended her decision to give the government time to consider an appeal.

Amigo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:05 pm
The word/concept "Terrorists" was made popular by repetitionin in the media to apply to islam to manufacture consent in a war over resources in the middle east. Every war is a war over resources and requires consent of the people. The people pay the cost (the cost is socialized) the corperations get the profits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 08:44 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Authorities have said the group planned to kill a police officer and then bomb a subsequent funeral.


The only problem with that is there seem to had been no police officer or officers in mind and no planning or steps to pick one out or follow through.

IE it seem to had been talk and only talk.

One wonder how many of us would now be in prison if talking about doing an illegal deed is the same as doing so.

0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 11:56 am
Quote:
DETROIT " A federal appeals court on Thursday issued an emergency stay blocking, at least temporarily, the release of nine jailed Michigan militia members accused of conspiring to overthrow the U.S. government.

The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati issued the stay shortly after the U.S. attorney's office in Detroit filed a motion seeking the order.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:29 am
I wonder if they will be heroes to other red necks...a sort of inspiration like McViegh. If someone is planning to blow things up, I dont know if you can deter them by locking some up.
0 Replies
 
 

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