36
   

Spill baby spill, slippery politics

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 09:30 pm
@JPB,
Barton, as a typical conservative, does not believe in personal responsibility.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 03:23 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

I agree it's certainly one of the worst, but as this article in the New York Times points out, we may have to wait until it's over to determine where it really ranks.

Quote:
Where Gulf Spill Might Place on the Roll of Disasters


Oil spills, too, seem to be judged more by their effect on people than on the environment. Consider the Lakeview Gusher, which was almost certainly a worse oil spill, by volume, than the one continuing in the gulf.

In the southern end of California’s San Joaquin Valley, an oil rush was on in the early decades of the 20th century. On March 14, 1910, a well halfway between the towns of Taft and Maricopa, in Kern County, blew out with a mighty roar.

It continued spewing huge quantities of oil for 18 months. The version of events accepted by the State of California puts the flow rate near 100,000 barrels a day at times. “It’s the granddaddy of all gushers,” said Pete Gianopulos, an amateur historian in the area.

The ultimate volume spilled was calculated at 9 million barrels, or 378 million gallons. According to the highest government estimates, the Deepwater Horizon spill is not yet half that size.

The Lakeview oil was penned in immense pools by sandbags and earthen berms, and nearly half was recovered and refined by the Union Oil Company. The rest soaked into the ground or evaporated. Today, little evidence of the spill remains, and outside Kern County, it has been largely forgotten. That is surely because the area is desert scrubland, and few people were inconvenienced by the spill.

That sets it apart from the Deepwater Horizon leak. The environmental effects of the gulf spill remain largely unknown. But the number of lives disrupted is certainly in the thousands, if not the tens of thousands; the paychecks lost in industries like fishing add up to millions; and the ultimate cost will be counted in billions.

Even with all that pain, can it yet be called the nation’s worst environmental disaster?

“My take,” said William W. Savage Jr., a professor of history at the University of Oklahoma, “is that we’re not going to be able to tell until it’s over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/science/earth/19enviro.html?hp




When we say the worst environmental man-made disastor, it should include the destruction and damage of natural habitat, wildlife, human life and the violation of right to gain through livelihood, economic and ecological affectation.

If the Logic in the article is applied, than Man is himself the greatest cause of all environmental disastors.
The criteria for evaluating the seriousness and extent of environmental affectation cannot just be the volume of spillage, in this case, but the ecological significance and degradation of the entire region affecting the significance whether for humans, animals, micro-organisms, including anthropic factors like aesthetics and economics.

Having said this, the central point of the article that the current Gulf of Mexico Oil spill i snot yet the worst environmental disastor is not updated with the assertion and observation of Oil Industry experts who now say that to completely plug the leak will only be possible until August. If such an accident is not a termed a serious accident until all passengers are counted hurt or dead, and all damages measured up - is a legal and technical point of view.

The article appeared to be apologetic, and wanted to smother the flames of anger. Although the (possible) facts brought out was quite educative, at least to this poster.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 03:59 am
@Jackofalltrades phil,
Quote:
Man is himself the greatest cause of all environmental disastors.


Yes--obviously. Could that be the ultimate inspiration for the temptation of Eve myth and original sin?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 05:31 am
@Jackofalltrades phil,
Quote:
The article appeared to be apologetic, and wanted to smother the flames of anger. Although the (possible) facts brought out was quite educative, at least to this poster.
I read it more as an article that was dictated by an editorial morning meeting that was eager to print something with a "different slant" on this oil spill thing.

Its kind of a dumb article really, dont you agree?
teenyboone
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 10:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I just wonder WHO is advising Obama on this and why nothing seems to be happening. I am puzzled! He looks as though he isn't making the decisions.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 10:48 am
@farmerman,
Hi, Jack. Welcome to A2K.
It must be tough, after 60 days of this spill, for a paper to find something "fresh" to write about. The Times article was, to me, interesting but hardly breaking news. I was not aware of the incident in CA in 1910.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 11:09 am
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
It must be tough, after 60 days of this spill, for a paper to find something "fresh" to write about. The Times article was, to me, interesting but hardly breaking news. I was not aware of the incident in CA in 1910.


Good point. Can you imagine if this were to go on for 18 months, as was the case in the California spill? I just read a report that speculates the reservoir that feeds the BP well still retains more than 90% of its oil. If a solution isn't found, they estimate the leak could continue for 2 - 4 years.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 12:06 pm
@farmerman,
yes, that could be one way of saying it.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 12:07 pm
@realjohnboy,
You got it!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 12:27 pm
@teenyboone,
teenyboone wrote:

I just wonder WHO is advising Obama on this and why nothing seems to be happening.
I am puzzled! He looks as though he isn't making the decisions.


Bingo!
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 07:57 am
@H2O MAN,
He has done some things, but not enough emphasis has
been put on him putting the "squeeze" on BP for NOT
having ANY workable solutions to this and other problems.
I hate to say it, but the previous administration allowed any
oil companies to operate, "willy-nilly" with NO solutions to
being able to "cap" any oil spills, anywhere, for
that matter.

So MANY problems were thrown at the newcomer, Obama,
that oil energy was one of the last problems he thought he'd have to
encounter, much less, be head long into the worst man-made disaster
to date. Remember, Chicago was rebuilt after the fire, San Francisco,
rebuilt after the horrendous earthquake, oil WAS collected after the EXXON
Valdez, but the environment and wild-life suffered and is still being felt
since 1989.

In 2005, a blunder by the Corps of Engineers, caused the levees
to breech and collapse, causing New Orleans to drown, while the Netherlands
has their flooding under control. Nearly 5 years after Katrina, the rebuild
of New Orleans is slow, but under way. Having been born and raised there,
every trip I make home, seems like the City has been forgotten by this
country, except when flooding occurs, elsewhere and the grim reminder
of how the most European City in this country, is still an afterthought, like
"Oh yeah", this is similar to Katrina, as in the case of Tennessee, then all of
a sudden some southern Republicans get their drawers in a knot!

That's all I'm saying. Where the hell is the alarm over this latest disaster?
The governor of Mississippi and his cohorts in Alabama and Florida are in a
snit, but to hell with Louisiana, huh? That's all I'm saying. Think about it.
The rich waters in the Gulf, produce the best seafood in this country. Oil and
mineral rich, Louisiana get s NONE of the revenue, from oil and natural gas,
so plentiful, which is why it remains the "stepchild" of America. Food for thought.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 10:54 am
@teenyboone,
I agree that the president has more on his hands now than he is able to handle. However, that has much more to do with his own limitations and his own reckless pursuit of a political agenda that is quite obviously contrary to the unfolding facts and issues of the moment.

Some things for you to consider;
1. It wasn't a "blunder by the Corps of Engineers" that caused the levees protecting New Orleans to breech. It was, instead a storm surge greater than their acknowledged design limits that did that. The levees were and are the property of the state of Louisiana, and were managed by boards appointed by the governor. Among the forty plus directors of the six independant boards managing the six levee districts, most were property developers and political hacks. There were only one or two civil engineers in the whoile group. Federal money originally intended to upgrade the levees was diverted in 1997 in an budget earmark by Democrat Senator J. Bennet Johnston to build the "J. Bennet Johnston Canal "- a waterway for ship traffic which in Katrina hastened the flow of the storm surge to lake Ponchatrain and the levee failure. The underlying problem in Katrina was the long-term corrupt and incompetent politics of the State of Louisiana. President Bush manfully took the hit without attempting any excuses. What a contrast with the current occupant of the White House.
2. The three issues undermining president Obama right now appear to be residual opposition to the health care reform he pushed through the Congress with a liberal application of political payoffs; growing concern about our fast-growing public debt and deficits at a time when most of the the developed world is facing public debit issues and when the European social welfare model he is attempting to force on this country is revealing itself to be unsustainable in Europe; the continuing display of incompetence, posturing, evasions of concrete issues, demonization of those who embarass him, and excuse-making by a President who is clearly in it over his head.
3. No one "threw these problems at the newcomer president". They are the normal lot of presidents. Read a little history concerning the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon presidencys. The Clinton years were the singular exception - a period of peace and prosperity following the end of the Cold War and before the emergence of the Islamist threat.

It is simply our misfortune to have elected a nice-looking, well-spoken, but largely inexperienced idealogue to our presidency at a time in which the country faces serious challenges that would tax the wisdom and abilities of a much better man.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:08 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

It is simply our misfortune to have elected a nice-looking, well-spoken, but largely inexperienced idealogue to our presidency at a time in which the country faces serious challenges that would tax the wisdom and abilities of a much better man.


I guess our only comfort, then, is the absolute knowledge that he is doing a better job than his opponent, McCain, would have done.

I can see how a period in which much legislation that you don't agree with is passed would seem like a dark time to you, George, but this is a reflection of you and your opinions more than it is a sober account of the state of the country.

Cycloptichorn
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:29 am
It is amazing anyone could feel that Crash McCain would have done a better job. He was in the bottom one percent of his academy class, crashed five planes, was the leader of the Keating Five, which cost this country abouth half a trillion dollars. He supported Bush 90 % of the time, notwithstanding that the Bush policies nearly destroyed our country.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:32 am
The oil spill rate estimates started out at 1k barrels a day and were then changed to 5k bpd. Then they rose to 20k bpd and then 60k bpd. Now they are finally getting to where I think they really are (and always were), 100k bpd.

Now that the rate has been revealed to be over 60k bpd, if BP gets the thing plugged leaving a spill rate of only 5k bpd (back to the original number), do you think people will consider that a success?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:35 am


I'd love to discuss this issue, but I have a golf match followed by a cook out.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:10 pm
@georgeob1,
What does THIS have to do with his ability to lead?

It is simply our misfortune to have elected a nice-looking, well-spoken, but largely inexperienced idealogue to our presidency at a time in which the country faces serious challenges that would tax the wisdom and abilities of a much better man.

WHO is the BETTER man, as you say? John McCain? The "foaming at the mouth", Palin? Who? "Mr. Freedom First", Dick Armey? Barton? Please background check these people first, then tell me how knowledgable and BETTER they are!
teenyboone
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:11 pm
@Advocate,
Oh Lord, THANK you!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:26 pm
If the relief wells don't do the job quickly they will need the explode it to seal it.

BTW, I hope the drama under the surface is being recorded for an I-Max like documentary film.


I would have Sir Richard Petty narrate the film.

http://www.stp.eu/images/about-petty.jpg
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:54 pm
@teenyboone,
I think the Reps want to resurrect Dan Quayle. After all, he was the guy who pointed out that buying Belgian endives is unpatriotic.
 

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