Knocking on heaven's door

Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 06:58 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You've responded to me so out of respect I will reply

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It's clear that you have experienced suffering and it really doesn't matter if the circumstances that caused your suffering are somehow "worse" than anyone else's.

I don’t think my issues or problems are any worse than others have to deal with. To the contrary. I’m not trying to use my stuff as a “who has it worse thing” " like I said, it’s not a competition. What I find hard to deal with, others may not. What someone else finds difficult, I may not. That’s the whole point of what I’m trying to say on this thread.

For example. My best friend daughter and my son were best friends. My son " no education blah blah blah and his story. My best friends daughter’s hasn’t got into her first or second choice university. When my friend and I talk, or laugh or cry... her issues are JUST as important as mine " this affects her in a bad a way I asm affected by an email detailing the latest “cut” . Her feelings and what she considers hard to deal with " if the roles were reversed, I would maybe able to deal with that in a moment " but for her, in her life, her expectations etc " it’s a really difficult thing " and tho my son will probably never see a university " her daughter’s feelings and her expectations of what she wished for " are probably greater than my son’s expectations right now. So whose issue is worse... or more burdensome. Neither. Neither are more important or less important because it’s not about the issues per se, it’s about how you deal with those issues and how often you deal with them and whether every day dealing leads to a point of “i’m done”..

I just don't believe that if you do focus on your suffering or you act on a desire, not for death, but to no longer live, you will have not made a choice.

I don't believe i focusing or suffering - I continue to have a full life to the best of my ablity. Love my job, my collegues, work with children. I have friends, I travel for lengthy periods, I have a beautiful little house,cats and dogs and a wonderful little boy who lives with me. Life is peachy. Illness is shite. Living with daily reminders of eldest son makes a slow bleed. But I don't think there is one person here who thinks that I do not do the best I can and live and travel as much as possible, despite the issues.

I think you appreciate this to, at least, some extent, because you acknowledge the existence of choice throughout your post.


I don't think any of us needs to relate the specifics of our personal sufferings as an admission ticket to this thread. I myself have had no shortage whether personally or through my loved ones, but I don't think I need to detail them to achieve authority, and if I do, then I'll just bow out of this thread.

you may not and I have not talked openly in 2 years about these sort of things... each to our own. Believe me, I wish no authority over anyone else or to reduce others feelings to be any less important that mine.

This is not to say that everyone who recounts their suffering is playing a strange game of "Top This," but I do think that the desire to recount is reflective of a mind set that has helped in leading them to their individual choice.

Perhaps reflection is required. Wher? This thread meets the topic criteria set. It's not a competition. I could easily use another example about my friends husband who died... but that her's story. I can only explain my feelings on the topic relating to my issues.

I know someone whose nature is incredibly positive. It is easier for her to see the world through rose colored classes ...

Me too. I know a very positive person. Gives me strength all the time.

My primary argument here is that we are not flotsam and jetsam on the sea of life. When we float into dark waters we may decide that we should surrender to the maelstrom, but we can also decide that we should remove ourselves from its grip, no matter how hard the task may be.

Remove yourself from the grip could well mean you have to "stop caring". How else do you remove yourself from the decisons to be taken if you still care. You can't. That’s what I’m trying to say. This thread is about, in my words it would be “when is enough, enough”....

“at what point does one just stop caring”

for a lot of people, the continual uphill climb " whether it’s losing your job ten times in a row, or an illness that keeps sapping the life out of you, or whether it’s watching a child or relative slip away in difference senses " it’s not one issue, or a couple, or general malaise, or being bored... it’s the uphill battle to deal with what’s happening on a fairly every day routine, as often with pain and illness, or having to watch the pain of someone else, those you love " and it’s that, that can bring you to the point of no longer caring, when you don't feel you've got enough left to keep on keeping on.

That may not make sense either.

The things I’ve written " it’s not about me... it’s simply how I’m trying to figure in my head at what point you stop caring. I don’t know another way to figure it out yet... so I’m just saying... coz that’s what I need to do right now. That’s all.

It's late, not a good time for me to post.

I hope what I've said is a little clearer. Mebbe not. Apologies for that.
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Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 07:05 pm

georgeob1 wrote:

Until then we live, and while living experience both the sweetness and pain of life.

Thank you OB1 " for listening and hearing. Yes, yes, until then we live, “living” not simply alive. I will do that for a long time.... willing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts openly. I wish only peace for you sister and for all your family to find the strength needed to hold her hand. ((OB1)) Thank you so much for your words. Mame... you too you accented lady of energy that I can’t wait to throw my arms around. And CJ " I hear you... I do.... it’s just the uphill’ness every day " is tiring " I’ll be alright, always am " that’s a choice I make. Thank you girl.

Lady Diane... please hug the Dys for me. I’ll be quiet now. Thank you for letting me talk here " hope your back is feeling better. All Love to you and Dys. xx
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Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 01:45 pm
@High Seas,
The second statement is unquestionably true - but is the first one? And even if it is, does encouraging delusions help or hinder the afflicted?

Years ago, I read an article (no link and no knowledge if it was legitimate), saying that people with depression see the world more realistically than "normal" people. Because I have experienced painful bouts of depression, I was struck by the idea and its probable truth.

Our brains come with filters that serve to set aside the sensory waves that hit us constantly, in order to help us retain our sanity.

I recently watched a program on LSD showing the progress of research into what actually happens to the brain while high on acid. The same theory was given, that LSD removes our brain filters and sends us into a totally different consciousness.

Who knows if it is true, but it makes sense to me. I don't think it would help the afflicted to encourage fantasy in order to escape reality, but heading toward happy memories, just "moving" reality an inch or two, would be extremely helpful.

Just some thoughts.
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Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 08:25 pm
Immortality may be the ultimate curse; if so then a long life may be a hardship.
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 08:47 pm
Amen, chumly.
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Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 12:38 pm
Fantasy v reality: as we move towards a fully artificially induced sensory environment the terms will blur more and more. There will come a time when your body will remain in a crèche while you mind could be "anywhere".

Today's psychoactive drugs, video games, HDTV, etc will seem primitive indeed. At that point not only could you be "anywhere" but you could any "age" and never feel any unwanted pain.
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Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:34 pm
Dys, my father turned 70 this week. He's been battling heart disease for more than 10 years. He had a stent put into one artery back then and turned his life around. He lost weight, took meds, changed his diet and exercised regularly. He was good for 5-6 years and then had to have another two stents put in. This disheartened him. He'd worked so hard and he still needed stents. He tinkered with his meds, diet and exercise regiment. Last year he was told he needed another stent. He refused it. He went to see an different sort of heart specialist who supported his decision (with conditions).

We, his family, have all been trying to do our best to support his decision as well. This would be easier to do if he didn't seem to feel that his days were numbered. At times it seems like he has given up. He makes comments about not being around in 5 years, or wants more frequent pictures of him with his grandkids. But, then, he keeps on doing everything right with his meds, diet and exercise. So, he hasn't given up all effort.

We all feted him with our thoughts and memories of him. Friends, colleagues, family all wrote to him. We had my 10 year old niece read our letters to him. We all sat there trying not to cry, and quietly appreciating Silvi for interjecting her classically adolescent comic relief.

It's been such an emotional week. It's hard to hold our tongues about his decision.
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