Knocking on heaven's door

There is never a shortage of things to learn about. This keeps some people going.

Ed: That's no way for a man to die.
Frank: No... you're right, Ed. A parachute not opening... that's a way to die. Getting caught in the gears of a combine... having your nuts bit off by a Laplander, that's the way I wanna go!
(Naked Gun)

I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch
he said to me "you must not ask for so much"
and a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door
and she cried to me "Hey, why not ask for more."

Like a bird on a wire I have tried in my way to be free.

Leonard Cohen

When I was a beggarly boy and lived in a cellar damp
I had not a friend or a toy, but I had Alladdin's lamp
When I could not sleep for the cold, I had fire enough in my brain
And builded with roofs of gold, my beautiful castles in Spain

James Russel Lowell

I don't want my nuts ripped out in the process. That just isn't classy.

Pierre drove me nuts. I didn't particularly like him by the end of the novel.

There were characters there I liked more. Pierre was a passive rich kid who got lucky and grew up while those around him suffered greatly. Still it was a great story.

Do you remember the first epilogue? Tolstoy, in making some point relates a story about a Russian pesant who is shown a, then very new, steam engine. The peasant is asked "What makes the engine move"? The peasant replies, "There's a devil in there who makes it move". Tolstoy relates that, on patiently explaining to the peasant that there is certainly no devil in the engine, and even providing some details of the heat engine, and then again asks, "What makes the engine move" .... The peasant, after some reflection says, "Well then there's a German in there".

I had no complaints regarding the rest of the characters. It has been many years since I read that book. I had a beautiful hardbound edition, lost now, with pages of the same type paper as was commonly used to print Bibles.

I don't recall the man and the steam engine.

I read all of War and Peace over a period of three years. The inner workings of Tolstoy's characters are very believable. Just about all of them muse about the meaning of life in some way.

I once read that Tolstoy believed the English language title of his work is a mistranslation. Tolstoy believed the correct translation should be "War and the World."

I once began reading a biography of Tolstoy, but became uncomfortable when some of his character flaws mirrored my own. I left off and never completed any bigraphies of him.

When you reach the end of the circle
You`ll be the same as you began
It`s there the baby in the cradle
Becomes one with the dying man

Every life move is quicksilver
A stream that has no bed
You meet the riddle with no answer
A hunger that must be fed

Before you reach even the middle
Gather roses if you can
Join friends in a chain of circles
Celebrate the brotherhood of man

Every life move is quicksilver
A stream that has no bed
You meet the riddle with no answer
A hunger that must be fed

And No matter what you do
When you reach the end of the circle
You`ll be the same as you began
It`s where the baby in the cradle
Becomes one with the dying man

When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
When the road your trudging seems all uphill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high,
And you want to smile, but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit
Rest if you must, but don't you quit.

Life is queer with its twists and its turns,
As everyone of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about
When they might have won, had they stuck it out.
Don't give up though the pace seems slow,
You may succeed with another blow.

Often the struggler has given up
When he might have captured the victors cup;
And he learned too late when the night came down,
How close he was to the golden crown.

Success is failure turned inside out
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far;
So stick to the fight when your hardest hit,
It's when things seem worst that you mustn't quit!

(author unknown)

I think all this boils down to the occasionally observable fact that happiness and even joy are not things that happen to us. They are, instead... choices we can make ... usually when we are at peace and maybe a little wise. I'm not always able to do it (and I wasted many years not doing it much at all) but I am often aware of literally choosing to behave cheerfully and joyfully, and, as a result I quickly become engulfed in those feelings. I find the same with family and friends - those I know and love - their miseries and joys are almost always the result of how they choose to look at what besets or challenges them. Letting go of preoccupation with one's self is part of it too. Joy and delight are found outside one's self, not within - in the experience and contemplation of external things, and ... people. There's something interesting and fun to be found in most everyone. Sometimes it's a challenge finding it, and sometimes the attempt goes wrong, but what the hell ! I do enjoy teasing and needling those I like.

Very well said, George. I also think that happiness is a choice - a choice we make in how we perceive our own life. Being frustrated, stressed, unsatisfied, upset, depressed etc. hardly leaves room for anything else but an unhappy state of mind.
This is not to say that at one point or another we won't feel unhappy and harbor an array of negative emotions, but there comes a time one has to assess what
needs to change in order to have a different life, be content and peaceful.

I remember the cute cartoon "Happiness is......."
sometimes happiness is just as trivial as seeing another sunrise.

That's a broad and confident statement, and certainly consistent with the teachings of your church, which once declared depression -- aka "melancholy" or "acedia" -- a deadly sin. And I'm certainly happy that your own life supports that statement. But plenty of people are unhappy because genuinely horrible things have happened in their lives, and plenty of others are unhappy because their neurophysiology is wired for depression and anxiety. Are you seriously telling them all they're just making the wrong choices?

'k'noath.

I think there's a lot of truth in here.

Kinda like comedy is considered a more challenging art form than drama, it does seem easier to live with the sad/dark/painful things in our life than to fight our way toward the bright and positive.

I've posted elsewhere about my challenge, to myself, to look for the possible positive intentions in others' comments / actions. It's been tough, but I think it's been worth the effort.

This reminds me a bit of my father's end stages. He was a man who was terrified of death his entire life. He was also sure that he was going to die "next year" for years and years on end. He suffered from progressive dementia as a complication of multiple myeloma. At the end he was bedridden and wearing diapers. That was no way for a man to die - particularly one who was terrified of death his entire life. His final coherent words to us were, "This is no way for a man to live." He died the next day.

dys asks, "at what point does one just stop caring? Does everyone have a limit which, when crossed, quits? "

I think the probable answer to that is yes. That there comes a time when one is faced with deciding that the reasons for living, whatever they may be, no longer outweigh the reasons for giving up. Not everyone reaches that limit but I do think it's there for each of us.

There are many cases where end-stage cancer victims hold on for the sake of their loved ones. There are also many depressed teenagers who don't commit suicide because of the pain they know it would cause others. Those folks haven't reached their limit - they are still thinking of the effect of their life on others, and it's enough to keep them from giving up. OTOH, I know some elderly folks who have lost their partners and are just waiting to die. Their purpose for getting up in the morning is to go to bed that night in hopes that they don't see the following sunrise. Sometimes these thoughts are temporary, sometimes they aren't, but I do think they're normal.

People can and will emerge from tragedy, horrible childhoods and other atrocities that have happened to them. Some have more willpower than others, granted, but it is still a choice you make in life: let your experiences get the better of you or seek help to better yourself. A good example is the thread from Diest KTO about childhood traumas. I was speechless at the horrific childhood some people suffered through and I was amazed at how they coped with these issues and persevered in life. Ultimatly, it was their choice to leave that horrible past behind and make peace with themselves. It's not an easy road to take, incredibly hard, I am certain of it, but it's a choice one makes.
Depression, anxiety and other neurophysiological diseases can be overcome/stabilized with proper therapy and medication. Again, it's a choice one makes to address these issues.

It's often said that the industrial, affluent nations suffer more from a pessimistic outlook in life than poorer, 3rd world countries. Intellect
plays partially into it, but the notion of a simpler life with less expectation seems to be the key.

this may freak some folks out, but I agree pretty much fully with Jane here...