24
   

There is a word for that!

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 04:42 pm
@JTT,

Quote:
It means precisely that when, and these are the operative words, the context matches that meaning for certain dialects of English.


I don't think this sentence has any useful meaning. A misnomer is a misnomer.

"Nominal" does not mean "satisfactory".
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 08:00 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
I don't think this sentence has any useful meaning. A misnomer is a misnomer. "Nominal" does not mean "satisfactory".


It doesn't, for you, McTag, but you're being completely unrealistic. Is bonnet used to describe the hood of a car a misnomer?



oolongteasup
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 09:09 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I wonder what the word is for seeing a pattern or connection where everyone thinks none actually exists


paradox

if EVERYONE thinks none exists

then SEEING A PATTERN OR CONNECTION cannot occur

but you did a lovely job of sorting out wanda and tags and their paradoxes

did you really say 'actually' exists

yer such a japester
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 06:34 pm
@JTT,

Quote:
Is bonnet used to describe the hood of a car a misnomer?


You devious bugger.

A priest can be a God-botherer or a little club to kill fish, but that fact, and your argument, have nothing to do with the meaning of nominal discussed above.

In my humble opinion. No offence.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 07:16 pm
@McTag,
No offence taken, McTag. But I can't see how I'm being devious. Could that be part of my overall devious nature?

Quote:
A priest can be ... a little club to kill fish


Not in my dialect it can't. Would it then be sensible for me to suggest that that meaning can't exist for any other speakers of English?

George described a situation where people, real life people, used the word that had the meaning he described which was described in both M-W and AHD. Too much of a coincidence, I'd say.

Another meaning for nominal is approximate; something that isn't actually as described but it works for some purposes - nominal sizes for lumber/pipes.

That fits the description used by those at Widget Inc.

Quote:
But here we say a test's results were nominal, or a mission flew
nominally when everything went as expected. One doesn't say OK because
that implies there were no errors. Nominal means there may have been errors, but none that were unexpected.



oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 09:38 pm
@JTT,
A priest is a tool, often resembling a blunt weapon, used for quickly killing fish. Priests usually come in the form of a heavy metal head attached to a metal or wooden stick. The name "priest" comes from the notion of administering the "last rites" to the fish. Anglers often use priests to quickly kill fish.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 09:42 pm
@oolongteasup,
I gathered that, Oolong, but thanks for filling me in.
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 09:45 pm
@JTT,
sry , i missed the ironic intent of your argument initially
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 05:41 am
@JTT,

Quote:
But here we say a test's results were nominal, or a mission flew
nominally when everything went as expected. One doesn't say OK because
that implies there were no errors. Nominal means there may have been errors, but none that were unexpected.


You will see, in that sad and illiterate little note, that their intended meaning for the word "nominal" had to be explained for the reader. No surprise there.

Whish brings me back to my original remark, that the game here seems to be about assigning random meanings to commonplace words which have little or nothing to do with their accepted meanings.

A knnd of poetic licence? Unexpected outside of literary writings.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 09:37 am
@McTag,
It had to be explained for you, perhaps, McTag, just as you and Oolong had to explain the more obscure meaning of priest. Wandeljw had to explain the meaning of his "new" word.

There's also no surprise in any of these examples. I dare say that even an educated wordsmith like you hasn't been from one end of the OED to the other.

The meaning is not random. Meanings are generated by the only method known to language for generating meaning, by people who use them.

Poetic license is a nonsensical term. Poets, authors, songwriters and the like have no more right to use language as anyone else. Accepted meaning is just that, what's accepted. The acceptance comes long before these "new" words ever hit the page of dictionaries.

As I mentioned, 'nominal' also holds a meaning of 'approximate', so it's not hard to see that things that approach an approximate success, can also be seen as being nominally successful, a nominal success, a test that while not outstanding, not 100%, served its purpose.

One dialect's boot, surely an expanded meaning, is another's trunk, again, another expanded meaning.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 11:27 am
@JTT,

Quote:
As I mentioned, 'nominal' also holds a meaning of 'approximate', so it's not hard to see that things that approach an approximate success, can also be seen as being nominally successful, a nominal success, a test that while not outstanding, not 100%, served its purpose.


That's the point, isn't it. What you are dealing with here is a dialect.

You can say a nominal compliance with rules or instructions is satisfactory, or something being a nominal success is acceptable, but these phrases need the words "compliance" and "success" to convey their intended meaning.

"Nominal" on its own conveys no such meaning, except perhaps to the insiders of this particular dialect usage. And I would suggest a more precise and simpler use of the language would fit the bill better here.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 12:03 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
That's the point, isn't it. What you are dealing with here is a dialect.


Okay, I thought that's what I said.

Quote:
"Nominal" on its own conveys no such meaning, except perhaps to the insiders of this particular dialect usage. And I would suggest a more precise and simpler use of the language would fit the bill better here.


I must remind you, McTag, that the issue arose about how this particular group used it and, to me, taking a fronted adjective and putting it after a linking/copula verb is exactly how such adjectives make that kind of transition.

Arguably, that use is not widespread, but it doesn't then hold that used that way, it has no meaning. I'll even allow that this use is jargon, but that too doesn't make it void of meaning.

At the risk of being found devious, don't engineers employ jargon?
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 03:36 pm
Just in time for you gardeners . . .
fear of dirt: rupophobia
fear of vegetables: lachanphobia
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 01:17 am
@JTT,

Quote:
At the risk of being found devious, don't engineers employ jargon?


Every group in society uses jargon, but its use should be avoided in public notices and official publications.
0 Replies
 
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:01 am
@JTT,
Quote:
At the risk of being found devious, don't engineers employ jargon?


to use argot and get stuffed would be copulative
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:32 pm
I guess nominal would be "good enough for who it's for'
George
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:41 pm
@sullyfish6,
Interesting (to me, at least) commentary from
Thelen Aerospace

The use of nominal in aerospace has nothing to do with names, nouns, or
interest rates. It does, however, have to do with small or trivial deviations
from a planned performance.

The use of nominal in aerospace generally means that a test, rocket launch,
satellite deployment, etc. is going within previously determined limits and
can still be expected to come to an acceptable outcome. If all continues as it
has been going, the test will demonstrate that the item under test will work as
expected; the rocket will achieve the proper orbit; the satellite's solar arrays,
antennae, etc. will open. The rocket is where it is supposed to be and going as
fast a it should this long after launch, the thrust is correct, and success is
expcected.

When the announcer of a rocket launch says that everything is nominal, she
really means that the flight is going normally, or as expected, so far. The
announcer remains calm throughout the flight, even if it ends with an
explosion, perhaps calling an obvious disaster an anomaly.
Tryagain
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:42 pm
I totally never said this thread is lame. Despite what teasemaid said, she learnt me; Ruby, don't take your love to town!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:48 pm
For those of you who may not be aware, Tryagain is a language terrorist.

You have been warned.
George
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:58 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

For those of you who may not be aware, Tryagain is a language terrorist.

You have been warned.

Implicated in the Tower of Babel collapse, I hear
 

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