Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 05:36 pm
Can an innocent person be punished for murder?

Here is the scenario...
If one half of a set of conjoined twins commit murder, can the other half be punished?
I mean how do you punish one and not affect the other one?
Should the innocent one be punished simply because of their unusual medical condition?

http://io9.com/5437407/could-a-conjoined-twin-get-away-with-murder

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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 1,723 • Replies: 15
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 05:41 pm
@mysteryman,
I saw this earlier. I expect it will inspire a rash of violent crime by conjoined twins Wink .

Supposing institutional punishment is not elected by the state, what are the social ramifications for the innocent twin?
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 06:21 pm
Lock 'em both up, I say.

0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 06:23 pm
@mysteryman,
You could argue that the dependents of any criminal could suffer from punishment of that criminal. Conjoined twins just represent an extreme case of dependency.
0 Replies
 
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2009 07:05 pm
@mysteryman,
if the innocent twin was carrying a handbag prior to the offence that be an accessory before the fact
0 Replies
 
litewave
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jan, 2010 05:31 am
The twin should be punished because there is an important beneficial purpose of punishment: to protect society by isolating a dangerous person and/or to educate/motivate people not to commit harmful acts.

Yes, it is "unfair" for the other twin who didn't commit the act but generally a punishment is also "unfair" for any person who committed a crime, because no one has free will in the libertarian sense and so no one is ultimately in control of their actions. It is the implicit assumption of libertarian free will that gives the impression of "fairness" of punishment to the twin who committed the act while "unfairness" to the other twin.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jan, 2010 07:04 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Can an innocent person be punished for murder?

Here is the scenario...
If one half of a set of conjoined twins commit murder, can the other half be punished?
I mean how do you punish one and not affect the other one?
Should the innocent one be punished simply because of their unusual medical condition?

http://io9.com/5437407/could-a-conjoined-twin-get-away-with-murder


No
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 10:30 am
@litewave,
litewave wrote:

because no one has free will in the libertarian sense and so no one is ultimately in control of their actions.


Do you care to expand on that thought?
litewave
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 11:28 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
Do you care to expand on that thought?

http://able2know.org/topic/138901-1
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jan, 2010 11:02 pm
@mysteryman,
Well, if I'm with a friend while he commits murder without attempting to stop him I will most likely get some kind of punishment.

We regard a schitzophreniac as one person with a mental disorder. Even if there were two distinct personalities within one body we would still hold one accountable for the actions of the other.

Anyway, we regard conjoined twins as two separate persons who share some part of physical body. Some even share vital organs. When does it become more accurate to regard this as one creature with two heads?
In my opinion the answer to the problem explored in the article is a matter of defining precicely what conjoined twins are, legally speaking. I can't see how one half of a conjoined twin can murder someone without the other half knowing anything about it.

And besides, the question of wether or not an innocent person can be punished for a crime applies beyond this issue. If a man is sent to prison for murder, his family will suffer for it. He can no longer provide for his children or his wife.
But this we lay on the man himself. According to our thinking in this we should send the whole twin to jail and let the inevitability of punishing the innocent half be the guilty half's problem. After all, he should have thought about it before he did the crime, same way a man should have thought about his kids before doing a crime.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jan, 2010 11:09 pm
How about this...
What if the murder committed by one half of conjoined twins is the murder of the other half?

Is it murder or suicide?

How would we go about punishing one and burying the other?
Or should we bury both?
Or punish both?
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jan, 2010 11:29 pm
@Cyracuz,
That would be suicide as the conjoined twin he killed most likely is sharing a vital organ or two. The burden of one conjoined twin minus those vital organs would result in eventual death.

Okay, it's a passive aggressive version of a murder/suicide.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jan, 2010 07:12 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

That would be suicide as the conjoined twin he killed most likely is sharing a vital organ or two.
The burden of one conjoined twin minus those vital organs would result in eventual death.

Okay, it's a passive aggressive version of a murder/suicide.
Yes; murder n suicide can be concurrent,
e.g. the suicide bomers.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jan, 2010 07:17 am
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
Well, if I'm with a friend while he commits murder
without attempting to stop him I will most likely get some kind of punishment.
The theory is that u have no duty to interfere,
but if the 2 of u r together,
then it is a question of fact qua whether it is a joint project.

If 2 guys walk into a bank and one of them robs it,
or if one guy kidnaps someone,
while the other hangs around with him,
it looks as if possibly the 2nd guy is helping out.

Its a question of fact for the jury.





David
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jan, 2010 10:16 am
@mysteryman,
Reminds me of a case a while back. Illinois has a law on the books that defines "life" as beginning at conception. A pregnant woman was arrested for shoplifting and confined in the county lock-up pending trial. A lawyer brought a habeas corpus petition on behalf of the woman's fetus, contending that, because Illinois recognized the fetus as a human being, it was being held in custody without being charged with any crime. I don't recall how that case was ultimately resolved (I think the prosecutor, rather than go through all the trouble, simply asked the court to lower the bond requirement and the woman was released from jail).

In the case of the murderous conjoined twin, I imagine that the other twin could be held as an accessory, depending upon the nature and extent of their joint condition. I suppose, given the knottiness of this conundrum, that it's just as well that conjoined twins have enough problems without acting out on their homicidal urges.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jan, 2010 10:20 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
Reminds me of a case a while back. Illinois has a law on the books that defines "life" as beginning at conception. A pregnant woman was arrested for shoplifting and confined in the county lock-up pending trial. A lawyer brought a habeas corpus petition on behalf of the woman's fetus, contending that, because Illinois recognized the fetus as a human being, it was being held in custody without being charged with any crime. I don't recall how that case was ultimately resolved (I think the prosecutor, rather than go through all the trouble, simply asked the court to lower the bond requirement and the woman was released from jail).
Maybe a conspiracy to pull off the job together?
0 Replies
 
 

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