9
   

Fascism vs. Capitalism vs. Socialism: The Smackdown

 
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 10:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Thank You, OmSig. You are right on the money, as usual. However,you must agree that "or" is in that space for a reason-It suggests that either is permissible.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 10:48 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
I think in the original thread, you are conflating fascism with totalitarianism.
Do u wish to make a distinction ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 10:54 pm
@MASSAGAT,
MASSAGAT wrote:

Thank You, OmSig. You are right on the money, as usual.
However,you must agree that "or" is in that space for a reason-It suggests that either is permissible.
Yes; it was my intention to reveal my preference between those alternatives.





David
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Dec, 2009 11:01 pm
Om sig- Note--


Fascism is normally described as "extreme right"[32], but writers on the subject have often found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[33] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both the left and the right.[7] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[8]
********************************************************

The resident genius, Setanta, does not agree with the scholarly consensus. I clearly showed that the platform adopted by Adolf Hitler for the Nazi Party in 1920 had, as is noted above, influences from both the left and the right.
As usual, because he is so afraid of being shown to be in error, he would not agree that there are indeed some left wing ideas expressed in the Nazi platform.

Of course, the poor man was a lecturer in some backwoods hillbilly college so he cannot admit he was wrong.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:12 am
@MASSAGAT,
MASSAGAT wrote:

Om sig- Note--


Fascism is normally described as "extreme right"[32], but writers on the subject have often found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[33] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both the left and the right.[7] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[8]
********************************************************

The resident genius, Setanta, does not agree with the scholarly consensus. I clearly showed that the platform adopted by Adolf Hitler for the Nazi Party in 1920 had, as is noted above, influences from both the left and the right.
As usual, because he is so afraid of being shown to be in error, he would not agree that there are indeed some left wing ideas expressed in the Nazi platform.

Of course, the poor man was a lecturer in some backwoods hillbilly college so he cannot admit he was wrong.
Originally the conservatives, who supported the Crown
in the French parliament (or was it the Estates General ?) sat on the right
and from that, the term became applied to conservatives.

How do u define the right within the context that u have used?

Before Mussolini founded the Fascist Party, he 'd been a socialist
newspaperman for many years. So far as I am aware, only the
rather technical, theoretical distinction of title to property
being either in the state or in its inividual owners distinguishes
the totalitarianisms of commie and nazi. Hitler grew up in penury
after his father died and he lived near destitution after the war
and then he joined a socialist party: no big surprize. The poor wish to plunder the rich.
He CALLED it a socialist party.
He ranted against Individualism.

I don 't see much difference between nazi and commie.





David
P.S.:
My impression of setanta is that he is a victim of both senility and of Tourette 's Syndrome.
I don 't have much confidence in his opinions. I am not influenced by his opinions of anything.
I 'd rather get my information from more reliable sources and more decent sources.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:13 am
So we have again one those stupid threats where some right-wingers try to equal socialism to fascism.

What really disturbs me is that people just make claims (Mussolini was a lifelong socialist) without looking at the background ...

But carry on.


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:18 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

The Scandinavian form of social democracy grew out of the Lutheran Church.


Sweden's Sveriges socialdemokratiska arbetareparti [SAP] is the oldest political party there. The engagement of the church in their politics has just one simple reason: the religious folk movements were part of/engaged in the peasant and worker movements/unions.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:38 am
On another note, it is interesting to look at the history of the term 'left-wing fascism'/'left fascism': it was first used in Italy by Italian Democrats for the Stalinism - to show how it equals Italian fascism (in 1926).
In 1926, German Socila-Democrats used this term as a label for the German Communists.
Months later, German Communists used the term for German Social-Democrats.
Jürgen Habermas used it in 1967 for the 'APO' ...


It's a polemic 'fighting word', equalising two different political systems and their ideologies, and opposing dictatorship.


0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

So we have again one those stupid threats where some right-wingers try to equal socialism to fascism.

What really disturbs me is that people just make claims (Mussolini was a lifelong socialist) without looking at the background ...

But carry on.



What "threats" ???
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 02:37 am
@OmSigDAVID,
okie (and some more) posted his/their opinions on various threads over the last months.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 03:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The social democrates in their retorik used the Lutheran ideas to think, but in a secular way.
In the protestant Sweden could the Lutheran confession very well be used also in politics within a frame for national conservatism.
Help the hungry, thirsty, poor and sick.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 03:56 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

The social democrates in their retorik used the Lutheran ideas to think, but in a secular way.
In the protestant Sweden could the Lutheran confession very well be used also in politics within a frame for national conservatism.
Help the hungry, thirsty, poor and sick.


Well, their first programs contained quite a lot from both the 'Gotha-' (1875) and the 'Erfurt-program' (1891) of the German SPD.
(While in German the Communists developed an own party independently to the SPD, in Sweden the Sveriges socialdemokratiska vänsterparti became in 1921 the Communist Party. [The USPD in Germany was independent for a years, too, and later became of the KPD.]
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 04:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I only expressed how we Swedes see Sweden.
Germans might see Sweden with different eyes.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 05:51 am
@saab,
No problem. But you (= the Swedes) can read the copied programs, too Wink
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 07:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What you research is normally so well founded one does not have to check anything.
Instead I am going to sit back, relax and enjoy the 13 of December - Lucia
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:39 pm
@saab,
My daughter feels all drugs should be legalized but that people wishing to take addictive drugs should be sterilized before enrolling in the drug program.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:41 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Yep, referring to a novel is a great way to illustrate governments in the world.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Or when those same people insult someone they never met.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:46 pm
Green Witch -- I like and agree with the analysis that opened this thread. Good work!
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 03:57 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
I think in the original thread, you are conflating fascism with totalitarianism.
Do u wish to make a distinction ?

Fascism is generally totalitarian. Totalitarian is not necessarily fascist.

Squares are rectangles. There are many rectangles that are not squares.
 

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