Family Law: Spousal Maintainence

@mm25075,

The original idea of paying women when divorcing them (as only men had the right) was to prevent women and children from becoming prostitutes and beggars as property ownership was not possible for married women. All property was owned by their husband. Do any of the original reasons still apply ? Have we been stuck with an outdated system politicians are too scared to handle ?

2 Replies

@Ionus,

I think that the support of children can certainly be a benefit of ensuring a spouse is compensated. What about if there are no kids and the genders were reversed with the female half of the couple as the sole breadwinner?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

I can certainly see why male politicians don't want to touch this sort of issue...I mean why would they take away something that could be good for them in a divorce? *snickers*

1 Reply

@mm25075,

My guess is that if he is able (forget willing) to support himself, he will be out of luck. Now, if he supported you through medical schoo or something, by working multiple low paid jobs, it might be a different story.

1 Reply

@mm25075,

The answer to your question depends on which one of the parties I represent: the payor or the payee.

In Arizona, it's a two-step process. ARS 25-319(A) lists the 4 factors to determine whether a spouse -- whether that spouse be the husband or the wife -- is entitled to receive spousal maintenance. ARS 25-319(B) lists the factors reviewed to determine amount and duration.

Quote:

A.R.S. 25-319. Maintenance; computation factors

A. In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage or legal separation, or a proceeding for maintenance following dissolution of the marriage by a court that lacked personal jurisdiction over the absent spouse, the court may grant a maintenance order for either spouse for any of the following reasons if it finds that the spouse seeking maintenance:

1. Lacks sufficient property, including property apportioned to the spouse, to provide for that spouse's reasonable needs.

2. Is unable to be self-sufficient through appropriate employment or is the custodian of a child whose age or condition is such that the custodian should not be required to seek employment outside the home or lacks earning ability in the labor market adequate to be self-sufficient.

3. Contributed to the educational opportunities of the other spouse.

4. Had a marriage of long duration and is of an age that may preclude the possibility of gaining employment adequate to be self-sufficient.

B. The maintenance order shall be in an amount and for a period of time as the court deems just, without regard to marital misconduct, and after considering all relevant factors, including:

1. The standard of living established during the marriage.

2. The duration of the marriage.

3. The age, employment history, earning ability and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance.

4. The ability of the spouse from whom maintenance is sought to meet that spouse's needs while meeting those of the spouse seeking maintenance.

5. The comparative financial resources of the spouses, including their comparative earning abilities in the labor market.

6. The contribution of the spouse seeking maintenance to the earning ability of the other spouse.

7. The extent to which the spouse seeking maintenance has reduced that spouse's income or career opportunities for the benefit of the other spouse.

8. The ability of both parties after the dissolution to contribute to the future educational costs of their mutual children.

9. The financial resources of the party seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to that spouse, and that spouse's ability to meet that spouse's own needs independently.

10. The time necessary to acquire sufficient education or training to enable the party seeking maintenance to find appropriate employment and whether such education or training is readily available.

11. Excessive or abnormal expenditures, destruction, concealment or fraudulent disposition of community, joint tenancy and other property held in common.

12. The cost for the spouse who is seeking maintenance to obtain health insurance and the reduction in the cost of health insurance for the spouse from whom maintenance is sought if the spouse from whom maintenance is sought is able to convert family health insurance to employee health insurance after the marriage is dissolved.

13. All actual damages and judgments from conduct that results in criminal conviction of either spouse in which the other spouse or child was the victim.

C. If both parties agree, the maintenance order and a decree of dissolution of marriage or of legal separation may state that its maintenance terms shall not be modified.

D. Except as provided in subsection C of this section or section 25-317, subsection G, the court shall maintain continuing jurisdiction over the issue of maintenance for the period of time maintenance is awarded.

3 Replies

@roger,

Good guess, roger.

0 Replies

@mm25075,

Quote:

What about if there are no kids and the genders were reversed with the female half of the couple as the sole breadwinner?

Increasingly, this is the case or where there is considerable disparity in wages. I dont believe one adult is reponsible for another adult once a relationship ends. Not in today's economy where we could not go back to the days of supporting women at home even if we wanted to. They have contributed so much manpower to the workforce as to be now essential to its survival without a collapse and rebuilding of the economy. So the premise of supporting someone else has long gone.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Just curious, but what if they are married in one state and both live and file for divorces in a second and third state ? How do you Americans handle different states because here we are thoroughly sick of paying for another level of politics and differing laws ?

1 Reply

@mm25075,

I appreciate sarcasm when applied to politicians so it is not because of that which is why I reply...Rather politicians are terrified of the womens movement.

0 Replies

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Just curious, but what if they are married in one state and both live and file for divorces in a second and third state ? How do you Americans handle different states because here we are thoroughly sick of paying for another level of politics and differing laws ?

Not sure I understand your exact question. When divorcing, it matters very little where the parties were married. A threshold question is which state has personal jurisdiction over the parties for each issue of the divorce. Most states have a "residency" requirement -- a particular length of time one of the parties must be domiciled in that state before the state has subject matter jurisdiction over the divorce. In Arizona that length of time is 90 days. But while Arizona might have jurisdiction over one spouse who has lived here 90+ days (and thus it would have jurisdiction to dissolve the marriage), it might not have jurisdiction to order the non-resident spouse to pay the other maintenance. (Notice the language in ARS 25-319(A): "or a proceeding for maintenance following dissolution of the marriage by a court that lacked personal jurisdiction over the absent spouse, ...") And, in addition, the children might not have lived here long enough for Arizona to have initial jurisdiction for a child custody determination. There are sets of uniform laws, adopted by most if not all states, that address appropriate jurisdiction for child support and child custody matters, as between the states.

Where is "here"?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

There are still situations where one spouse has been a homemaker for 20 years (perhaps she/he stopped working to stay home with the children), has very little skills to make them substantially employable in the work force, and they are unable to provide for their reasonable needs working the best job they can find. They are not self-sufficient ... perhaps they need to go to school or receive some training. And often they supported the other spouse during the marriage while that spouse obtained an education and improved their salary potential. Do you hold the same view under that scenario?

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

A good answer for my bad question. Thanks. Here, is Ozstraylya.

0 Replies

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

they are unable to provide for their reasonable needs...often they supported the other spouse during the marriage while that spouse obtained an education and improved their salary potential

That scenario is certainly cause for second thoughts. I guess it depends on reasonable needs and how often "often" is. I still think that the interference of a court is very undesirable. The desire to protect comes from the desire to protect women and is now being used to protect men. But what about the other end of the scale ? How many divorces end with the woman recieving many millions ? She contributed nothing from your example so there is no "often", we are left with is it reasonable ?

0 Replies

@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

The answer to your question depends on which one of the parties I represent: the payor or the payee.

In Arizona, it's a two-step process. ARS 25-319(A) lists the 4 factors to determine whether a spouse -- whether that spouse be the husband or the wife -- is entitled to receive spousal maintenance. ARS 25-319(B) lists the factors reviewed to determine amount and duration.

Quote:
A.R.S. 25-319. Maintenance; computation factors

A. In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage or legal separation, or a proceeding for maintenance following dissolution of the marriage by a court that lacked personal jurisdiction over the absent spouse, the court may grant a maintenance order for either spouse for any of the following reasons if it finds that the spouse seeking maintenance:

1. Lacks sufficient property, including property apportioned to the spouse, to provide for that spouse's reasonable needs.

2. Is unable to be self-sufficient through appropriate employment or is the custodian of a child whose age or condition is such that the custodian should not be required to seek employment outside the home or lacks earning ability in the labor market adequate to be self-sufficient.

3. Contributed to the educational opportunities of the other spouse.

4. Had a marriage of long duration and is of an age that may preclude the possibility of gaining employment adequate to be self-sufficient.

B. The maintenance order shall be in an amount and for a period of time as the court deems just, without regard to marital misconduct, and after considering all relevant factors, including:

1. The standard of living established during the marriage.

2. The duration of the marriage.

3. The age, employment history, earning ability and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance.

4. The ability of the spouse from whom maintenance is sought to meet that spouse's needs while meeting those of the spouse seeking maintenance.

5. The comparative financial resources of the spouses, including their comparative earning abilities in the labor market.

6. The contribution of the spouse seeking maintenance to the earning ability of the other spouse.

7. The extent to which the spouse seeking maintenance has reduced that spouse's income or career opportunities for the benefit of the other spouse.

8. The ability of both parties after the dissolution to contribute to the future educational costs of their mutual children.

9. The financial resources of the party seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to that spouse, and that spouse's ability to meet that spouse's own needs independently.

10. The time necessary to acquire sufficient education or training to enable the party seeking maintenance to find appropriate employment and whether such education or training is readily available.

11. Excessive or abnormal expenditures, destruction, concealment or fraudulent disposition of community, joint tenancy and other property held in common.

12. The cost for the spouse who is seeking maintenance to obtain health insurance and the reduction in the cost of health insurance for the spouse from whom maintenance is sought if the spouse from whom maintenance is sought is able to convert family health insurance to employee health insurance after the marriage is dissolved.

13. All actual damages and judgments from conduct that results in criminal conviction of either spouse in which the other spouse or child was the victim.

C. If both parties agree, the maintenance order and a decree of dissolution of marriage or of legal separation may state that its maintenance terms shall not be modified.

D. Except as provided in subsection C of this section or section 25-317, subsection G, the court shall maintain continuing jurisdiction over the issue of maintenance for the period of time maintenance is awarded.

3. Contributed to the educational opportunities of the other spouse.

- What is the definition of 'contributed to educational opportunities'? How does one prove that sort of thing

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

From the perspective of the payor...

How much does the length of marriage impact the overall decision?

9. The financial resources of the party seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to that spouse, and that spouse's ability to meet that spouse's own needs independently.

This seems to allow for non working spouses claim that doing housework can be case for helping to increase the working spouses income?

1 Reply

@mm25075,

mm25075 wrote:

- What is the definition of 'contributed to educational opportunities'? How does one prove that sort of thing

One hires a good attorney. Very Happy

0 Replies

@mm25075,

mm25075 wrote:

From the perspective of the payor...

How much does the length of marriage impact the overall decision?

It can impact it greatly. A 20 year marriage might result in a relatively high amount of support, for a very long duration, perhaps indefinitely, while a 4 year marriage might not result in any support being paid at all.

Quote:

9. The financial resources of the party seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to that spouse, and that spouse's ability to meet that spouse's own needs independently.

This seems to allow for non working spouses claim that doing housework can be case for helping to increase the working spouses income?

#9 does not really do that. But if you look at #7 ("The extent to which the spouse seeking maintenance has reduced that spouse's income or career opportunities for the benefit of the other spouse."), you see that if the payee spouse stopped working during the marriage -- perhaps he/she stayed at home and took care of the young children -- when she now re-enters the work force, her income may not be adequate for her to be self-sufficient without assistance from the payor spouse who has greater financial resources.

0 Replies

Family Law: Spousal Maintainence

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know