Words of wisdom, a contradiction in terms?

@Cyracuz,

So when did you become qualified to change or restrict the meanings of words?

"Wisdom" can mean...

# accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
# the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
# the quality of being prudent and sensible

You need to be less arrogant.

1 Reply

@contrex,

contrex

The meaning of words is continously revised and altered by all now living people. Many words mean different things today than they did 50 years ago...

Do you think that you are not qualified to change or restrict the meaning of words? In essence, doing so comes down to understanding them, exploring them.

And...

#accumulated knowledge doesn't equate wisdom.
#utilizing knowledge isn't neccesarily an act of wisdom. That would depend on what you used the knowledge for.
#the quality of being prudent and sensible can just as well be a result of traits not considered wise. And what is sensible anyway? There are many factors involved in what is sensible, one of them being what you are relating to.

And just how, precicely am I being arrogant?

You need to be less arrogant. Wink

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Words of Wisdom stand the test of time. They are relevant for all time.

Why do you think we read the classics, even today? Quote Lincoln? Socrates? Budda?

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

Words of wisdom...
It is my impression that wisdom cannot come in words. Words are limited to conveying knowledge, and if you already possess the wisdom that inspired this knowledge to be written down in the first place, you will see the wisdom in the words. But if you don't possess it, all the words in the world cannot help you understand it....

so, in other words, some people can't learn? That's how I'd interpret what you've written above: if you already know what's written down, you'll acknowledge the wisdom inherent in it - but if you don't already know it - all the words in the world will not help you understand it?

Are some of us born with this inherent knowledge and ability to learn and others just simply not?
If all the words in the world can't help us understand what we don't already know, seems like we'd all be stuck in our own isolated knowledge or idea pods without a lot of sharing of those ideas and that knowledge going on.
How would it be communicated and carried forth otherwise?

If this were true,knowledge would be very individual and not shared.
I think part of wisdom is understanding what it is useful to know and recognizing what and who constitutes or offers what is useful to an individual and what is not-even if its offered by someone outside of and foreign to one's own experience or knowledge.
And this is not static and can change from individual to individual

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@aidan,

Yes, when it comes to real wisdom, you cannot learn it -from words.
Thats all I'm saying.

Experience teaches you wisdom.
And when you read "words of wisdom", they ressonate with your own experience.
We read classics and quote great writers, not because they possessed unique wisdom, but because they possessed great skill at saying it in such a way that it strikes the nerve within us. But unless you have experience to relate to the words, they are meaningless.

And please make the distinction between knowledge and wisdom. They are not the same. A knowledgable person can be very unwise, and the most illiterat among us can possess great wisdom.

This is what I want to shed light on, I am not trying to discriminate anyone or discredit anyone. I simply want to examine our words and our meanings to achieve deeper understanding.

And I am not standing in the way of you doing the same. But maybe, given your attitudes to this thread, you are standing in your own way? And I mean no disrespect saying that. It's merely a suggestion, and it may be wrong. Only you can know that.

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@Cyracuz,

Ok, maybe that was kind of arrogant... But I won't take it back Smile

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@aidan,

Quote:

If this were true,knowledge would be very individual and not shared.

Knowledge is shared. We all know this.
But if you had said "wisdom would be very individual and not shared", I would agree with you.

Wisdom cannot be shared by means of words, at least not directly. You can be armed with knowledge that aids you in making good choices. But if you truly want the wisdom of someone, the best that person can do is set you on the path he himself walked to attain the wisdom he possesses.

If he merely tells you his conclusions it isn't wisdom he is sharing, it's knowledge, and you cannot grasp the full truth of it until you experience it for yourself.

For myself, I can let people who have children tell me about the experience of being a parent. And I understand it in a way. I recieve the knowledge of how it is; the facts. But until I myself become a parent these things will be impersonal impressions that I relate to with effort. When I become a parent it will be my experience, and I will know it with my whole being, not just my intellect and my empathy.

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

And I am not standing in the way of you doing the same. But maybe, given your attitudes to this thread, you are standing in your own way? And I mean no disrespect saying that. It's merely a suggestion, and it may be wrong. Only you can know that.

I was just asking questions to clarify for myself what you meant. In my experience Laughing

I've found that the best way to clear up confusion about something someone says - is to ask them what they mean and especially repeat one's own interpretation so that they can either say, 'yes, that's what I meant' or ' no, that's not what I meant.'

And I'm glad I did ask because I don't disagree with what you've explained - yes, knowledge is very different from wisdom and while sometimes it does seem inherent, I think it can also be developed in others who are less naturally prone to it - if those people are encouraged to watch and listen more often and carefully. Yeah - I do think it can be encouraged to develop with words.

Quote:

But unless you have experience to relate to the words, they are meaningless.

Do you mean experience or understanding of each separate word that gives it meaning - or do you mean experience to relate to the action or thought that the words as a coherent sentence represent?

Because, yes, one would have to understand the words to give them meaning, but in terms of the thought - I think many times, if it's presented with such skill that as you say, it strikes a nerve within us - it's something we haven't ever experienced but want to experience.
And that's what I meant about one possessing enough wisdom to be open to avenues of experience that are foreign to a particular individual, but will bring new experiences and greater wisdom.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Words of wisdom...
It is my impression that wisdom cannot come in words. Words are limited to conveying knowledge, and if you already possess the wisdom that inspired this knowledge to be written down in the first place, you will see the wisdom in the words. But if you don't possess it, all the words in the world cannot help you understand it....

I dissent. I 'll get back to u.

David

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@Cyracuz,

Quote:

Yes, when it comes to real wisdom, you cannot learn it -from words.
Thats all I'm saying.

Experience teaches you wisdom.
And when you read "words of wisdom", they ressonate with your own experience.

This would be true if were only capable of 'experiencing' actual events, but we are also capable of experiencing imaginations, supposition, hypotheticals, and dreaming.

'Words of wisdom' can trigger these abilities, which can lead to introspection, and/or to new perspectives....or they may not.

It seems to me that you are saying 'words of wisdom' cannot teach you to look inside yourself...and that's true enough - yet 'words of wisdom' is coined because that phrase (ie. the 'words of wisdom') has a lesson in it. Anything capable of teaching a lesson, is capable of imparting wisdom...or not.

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Vikorr wrote:

'Words of wisdom' can trigger these abilities, which can lead to introspection, and/or to new perspectives....or they may not.

Indeed.

We don't need to be involved in an accident to know that it's perilous to cross a highway at rush hours..

1 Reply

@Francis,

Francis. An animal knows it is perilous to cross a highway at rush hour. There is a difference between instinctive reactions and reflections and true wisdom. Both may be useful to us.

Vikorr, I see your point, but I still say that without prior experience 'words of wisdom' simply do not impact.

You may tell a child not to touch a flame, you may even be so explicit in your explanation that you arouse instinctive fear of doing it, which will definitely keep the child clear of flames, but if you wanted to impart this wisdom to the child you would let it touch the flame.

And aidan, my post wasn't directed soley at you, even though i replied to your post.

And like I said, this is all an exploration of concepts, and I find debate is an accelerated form of it in some cases. I think I will have difficulty defending my standpoint against some of the objections already raised in this thread Wink

Byt I'll have to get back to it, because I am short on time right now.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:

Francis. An animal knows it is perilous to cross a highway at rush hour.
There is a difference between instinctive reactions and reflections and true wisdom.

Will u reveal what this difference is and Y it is significant ?

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

An animal keeps away from the highway when traffic is heavey because it's instinctive fear of the unknown, loud and scary compels it to do so.
It is an instinctive reaction, and I do not think we need further explanations as to why this is not wisdom.

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Your initial premise is that we are unable to gather wisdom from the speech of someone else.

I strongly disagree with that premise. I've gained much wisdom listening and/or reading.

In addition, intuitive knowledge is wisdom.

Not only to me but to many philosophers as well.

Quote:

What this means exactly depends on the various wisdom schools and traditions claiming to help foster it. In general, these schools have emphasized various combinations of the following: knowledge, understanding, experience, discipline, discretion, and intuitive understanding, along with a capacity to apply these qualities well towards finding solutions to problems.

1 Reply

@Francis,

I am saying that we are unable to gather wisdom from soley the speech of someone else.
Seems to me there is always a process of experiencing and testing that follows our becoming inspired by the words of someone else.

The process of reading isn't what gives you wisdom. It's what happens in your mind with the accumulated knowledge afterwards that makes wisdom, along with the testing of this knowledge through experience.

So even if the initial source was a book, or the words of someone else, it does not become your wisdom until you have turned it into personal experience.

At least, that's the initial thought. I am no longer sure it holds true, though.
Thanks for the input so far everyone Smile

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Words of wisdom...
It is my impression that wisdom cannot come in words. Words are limited to conveying knowledge, and if you already possess the wisdom that inspired this knowledge to be written down in the first place, you will see the wisdom in the words. But if you don't possess it, all the words in the world cannot help you understand it....

You really need a job with risks and danger, then u'll realize how importaint it is to heed words of wisdom, you won't learn much just sitting in a room reading dry books.

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Words of wisdom, a contradiction in terms?

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