Boy Trapped in Flying Balloon

http://able2know.org/topic/137388-1

Speedy edgarblythe!

Turns out it was all a hoax . The kid let the balloon go and then ran and hid in the attic while all the shitstorm and afternoon TV focused on the balloon. Everyone assumed that he was either

1in the balloons bay
or
2He fell out of the balloon at some time after launch

He was getting "debriefed" by his father.
I think they created a new metaphor.

I only got debriefed once as a a nine year old kid when me and Yashu Yskulka made a match head bomb and blew up part of a flower urn in St Casimir cemetary. Yash got debriefed by his folks too.

Hoax hoax hoax................by the father. As he was the designer he would know how must lift it would have.

After I did the numbers it turn out that balloon could not had gotten off the ground with more then 35 pounds if it was in a hurricane.

And that being as kind as I could be the more likely lift of that balloon is a small cat.

The thing only reach a few thousands feet empty.

Sorry Farmerman it was a hoax but not by the boy see my other posting.

The father must think that no one else can do the numbers on how must that toy of his could lift off the ground.

Apparently weve heard two different versions. I heard the news on radio as I was deiving so Im only partially up to date. HOWEVER, I heard that the older brother began the story that his brother was in the balloon. The 6 year old , reportedly with the help of his older brother. undid the tehers and the baloon lifted off. I heard from a scientist at Woods Hole (on the radio) that the balloon was able to lift comfortably, a dead weight of at least 100 lb to about 5 K. There was a small rent in the balloon so when it lifted to 2500 ft it exhaled at a fater rate and began descending in the cooler air.
The 6 year old went and hid (the parents were reportedly searching for him) . SO Im not sure how we get two different explanations, unless I missed something (or maybe you did).

Getting debriefed (I assume that ENglish is not your first language) is a US slang for getting your underwear dropped and your heiner paddled by a pissed off parent. BAck in my childhood, a spanking would NOT bring on a Child Advocacy Center

A scientist claimed that toy could lift a 100 pounds off the ground? LOL

You get roughly 1.29 gram of lift for every liter of helium and very simple math concerning the maximum volume of this toy weather balloon from the landing video and you get a lift of far less then 50 pounds and more likely less then 10.

Once more it is a hoax by the father not the brother or the kid himself as the father would know that it could not had gotten off the ground with the child in it.

The scientist from Woods Hole did a calculation that included something that you failed to , he assumed a certain density of the air at a reported PM teperature and, the very density of the helium (He is compressible and the "lift" you usesd is at a gm equivalency. I have no idea how much He was in the balloon but several others have repeated the 100 lb lift calcultion. Im not denying you but Im just reporting what was reported over the air.

I didnt see anyone applying forensics to state unequivocally that the balloon ws unable to achieve the lift needed. After all, a guy once lifted himself in a garden chair with not much more of an apparent He volume. Remember that one where the guy strapped himself in a lawn chair with about 20 of the 3 ft wether balloons. This "flying saucer was about 20+ ft in diameter and was about a 5 + ft oblate spheroid. You can calculate that using the focus of 2 parabolic sections 20 ft diameter with a 2.5 ft focus each.

Once more farmerman there is no way such a small balloon can get off the ground under the laws of physic with this child in it but if you wish to believe it be my guess.

The man in the chair used 40 plus full size weather balloons if memory serve me correctly.

See below the comments of another gentleman that can do simple math that you do not need to be a PHD to do and came up with the same numbers I did.


http://www.adrenaldesign.com/blog/1/09101558

A little back of a napkin math later (assuming the craft was about an oblate spheroid (v=(4/3)Πa²b) ) I found that this gave the craft about 1,000 cubic feet of helium, which is 28,500 liters. Now this ignores what certainly looked like a giant dimple in the top in a few photos, I wanted to give this whole fiasco the benefit of the doubt, but I digress.

A liter of helium weighs about a gram less than a liter of air, giving it about a gram of lift (assuming both are at standard temperatures and pressures). This means that the gas inside a craft like the Heene's that is 30 feet across and 8 feet tall would be able to lift about 28.5 kilograms, which is just over 60 pounds.

That's just over 60 pounds of total lift, so the weight of the balloon and box structure would be included in that. Given that the average 6 year old boy weighs around 40 pounds, and that the conveniently opaque box on the bottom of the balloon looked like it could easily weigh 20 pounds, this whole thing seemed extremely unlikely.

Turns out I was right.

Not only was I right about the boy having never, ever, been in the balloon that we shut down an airport for, but it turns out I was extra right about the craft being completely incapable of carrying the poor child.

The balloon was actually 20 feet in diameter, and 5 feet tall (I've confirmed that these measurements are reasonable by comparing standing people to the craft shortly after landing). That gives it a lot less lift.

A balloon that size will be able to hold about 7,500 liters of gas. That's 7.5 kilograms of lift, for those of you not well versed in the metric system, that's about 17 pounds. Seriously, by my calculations the gas in that balloon couldn't carry a chubby toddler, much less a six year old and that (again, conveniently opaque) box on the bottom.

How, I wonder, did the father not realize that the balloon he designed and built wasn't big enough to lift a kid? How did he miscalculate the lift of his own balloon by such a gross margin? Could it be that reality TV appearing parents would grossly misuse their own child for publicity purposes?

Just in case you forgot, science is real, bitches.

MAybe its cause your "Adrenal" blog calc didnt consider DELTA(g) and the compressibility of He. The calc that was done by the Woods Hole scientist was not as simplistic as the one you linked. The change in weight may have been considerable since the flight started at almost 5K and the STP conditions areassumed at Sea level?

I dont know but its interesting to see how people can come to totally different conclusions from similar calculations. I didnt do any but Im aware that (g) can vary 5 to 10 % and compressibility of gases can yield even larger variables.
ALso, was the balloon REALLY onl;y 20 X 5 ? I think that it was much thicker than 5 ft..
As far as the "20 lb box" it was plastic foam. (I guess we should have questioned whether the foam construction was durable enough to carry the kid. ALso, the weight I heard about the kid was less than or about 50 lb.



Larry the lawn chair guy had significant weight of ballast (sand and water bags) and he weighed over 150 lb. EVen though he calculated based upon sea level g and stp, he shot up to 16000 ft and started shooting his balloons before he lost his rifle (or BB gun id dont remember which).

I'd like to really thank that guy for doing calculations after the fact that show we should not have been concerned....

Sorry once more no secondary gas effect is going to be enough to get a 6 year old off the ground with that amount of helium. It is simply impossible by the law of physic and you can belief this hoax and that is fine with me.

However when it does break and it will break as the FAA is involved there is going to be egg on more then your the Woods Hole scientist and your face my friend as most of the news channels for example.

That balloon might not be able to get even my one fat cat off for a trip.

That father should end up facing jail time and one hell of a large bill.

I'd like to really thank that guy for doing calculations after the fact that show we should not have been concerned....
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That guy and myself as we both got the same ball park figures.

I begin plugging the numbers using the poor information the news at the time was giving about the size of the balloon in fact they call it a hot air balloon at first!

Those numbers raise my doubts but once I like the other gentleman saw it landing and we both got a good idea on how must volume it could contain there is no question on earth that this could not get a 6 year old air born and this was a hoax.

You seem certaqin that the father is a culprit in this. You have no evidence of that either.
As far as your "cal;c" (heeh heeh).

Farmerman could you give me a link to this Wood Hole scientist and his claims that somehow such a tiny amount of helium could indeed lift a 100 pounds!

Love to see this gentleman math and the physics he used in details as it sound like complete nonsense to me and I would love to be able to check it out.

I would love also to do a fast check on the man himself also as when someone claim to an expert and yet give out information that on it face seem nonsense that does raise questions.

So do you have the link or the man name?

You seem certaqin that the father is a culprit in this. You have no evidence of that either.
As far as your "cal;c" (heeh heeh).
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Sure do given that this balloon is not able to lift a child and given that the man is the designer of this balloon and would be well aware of how must it could lift or not lift he would need to be in the hoax in reporting his child balloon trip now would he not?

As far as my calculation and heeh heeh it is simple math that anyone can check and simple physic of the ability of helium to lift that anyone can find by doing a fast google search.

Now you are not depending on your own ability but going on the word of a so call expert would your once more care to at least give me the name of this "scientist"?

Second question with your heeh what are you going to do when this hoax does indeed blow up?

Farmerman if the laws of nature and common sense is not enough for you perhaps this will help out heeh indeed.

http://mashable.com/2009/10/15/balloon-boy-falcon-heene/

Now that Balloon Boy is safe, it’s been revealed his family participated in reality TV show Wife Swap, and there’s even a t-shirt about the whole affair, the question seems to be turning to: was this whole thing a hoax?

An interview this evening on CNN is raising all sorts of questions and is likely to be making the rounds well into the night. Asked why he didn’t respond to his family calling his name, Falcon says, “you guys [his parents] said we did this for the show.” His parents, seemingly stunned by the answer, quickly try to change the story.