SHOUD PEOPLE BE DEEMED HUMAN WITHOUT A MATERIAL BODY?

Im always open for new experiences but "would I like" and "Is it so" are two totally different sides of the discussion

I am glad, in sincerity, that we are not going to lose u,
even when your deciduous body goes its natural way --
the same way that we don 't lose u when your shoes wear out.

I like the way that it was expressed by Deepak Chopra, M.D.[approximately]:
people believe that we are human beings
with occasional spiritual experiences, but we are spiritual beings with occasional human experiences.

Lemme ask u, Farmer,
as a thought experiment:
if u had an out-of-body experience
(whether your material body was functioning or not)
and if your experiences were objectively confirmed
(e.g., if your consciousness ventured a great distance hence
and observed an unusual event that was later confirmed)
woud u then be interested in exploring what happened
and interested in sharing knowledge of the existence of this experience
with your benighted fellow beings who had not been so fortunate
as to enjoy such a vacation?





David

Of course Id be quite interested in all the events and the means by which i seemed to acquire the information. However, that would entail a detailed investigation of which Im not sure Id know how to begin.

At the outset,The very act of maintaining some objectivity would be difficult because Id have some initial information that followed this sort of reasoning:


!I was at point A and was "unconscious" or "sufficiently dead" by what medicine now knows

2Something entirely different was going on atpoint B at the same time I was unconscious. Point B is a t sopme distnace to my point A

3 When I awoke (Or was revived) I knew about everything that happened at point B while I was sufficiently dead.

Im thinking that there needs to be established some assurance of "information isolation" between me at A and what went on at B. Ne?

Id guess start by conducting some interviews tofind out whether anyone was talking about the occurence at B , or was listening to a radio, or that there was any other means of conveying a news story to where I was lying unconscious.

You agree that wed then have to investigate at some point establishing what was common about Me, Point A, and Point B (as well as simultaneity in time).

NDE's are an experience of a Not-quite-dead being(IMHO) so theres a vast chasm of reality between sufficiently dead and not-quite-so-dead

FACT OF NATURE

A marine Galapogos iguana and a Saltwater Crocodile can totally stop allbodily functions underwater. Theyve been monitored with no pulse or brain waves in controlled studies. Then, they just come back to life. and they do this **** all the time. Im wondering whether we have a latent ability to go deep within ourselves and almost shut down during stress and trauma so that medicine isnt yet able to define the state as anything but "sufficiently dead", when its actually not-quite-so-dead.

I think we have to start thereabouts dont you?.

Yeah; sounds good. A phenomenon can be probed from a lot
of different angles for investigative purposes.

I was informed that I died during abdominal surgery a few years ago.
I have no memory of anything other than awakening in the ICU later.

I have had -- and enjoyed -- 3 instances over several years,
in court on-the-job, when I had out-of-body experiences,
while I was actively taking depostions. I saw myself from across the room.

Another time, it happened at lunch in a fast food restaurant.
It feels kinda nice; its fun. I wish thay 'd lasted longer.

I was impressed by the following:
in the early 1990s, a member of my Manhattan-based fine dining group
invited me to a dinner meeting of her study group as to the works
of Arthur Conan Doyle qua Sherlock Holmes.

We were seated around circular tables for 12.
To her left, was her friend, Mary Francis.
My hostess said that she 'd absent herself early, because
an old friend of hers was in extremis, on his deathbed,
and most apprehensive of his future. Being in lower Manhattan,
I opined that we were surrounded by bookstores and that she shoud
get him a book qua near death experiences, to cheer him up and raise his confidence.

Mary Francis then mentioned that in the 1950s, she had great
difficulty in giving birth in a hospital, in the State of Florida.
She said that her attending obstetrician said something to the effect
of "we 've lost her" or "she 's gone", etc. whereupon her
consciousness rose from her body and she observed efforts below
to revive her. She said that her consciousness drifted out
and back behind the hospital. She 'd never been back there before.

She saw her 5 year old son sitting at the top of a flight of wooden
stairs, waiting out his mother, inside. She said that she saw
a female black cook come out and give him a slice of chocolate cake, then
go down the stairs into the yard, pull down a banana from a tree and give it to him.

Mary Francis told us that her thoughts then turned to her daughter
in school some miles distant, whereupon her consciousness appeared
in her class in an elevated position over her daughter.
She saw that a spelling test was in progress
and that her child had misspelled one of the words,
which woud not have happened if fonetic spelling had been used.

Mary Francis then became distraught at the impending loss of her
family, whereupon she re-appeared in the hospital and re-entered
her material body and revived. Her physician was enuf
of a scientist with an inquiring mind to ask her how she felt
and she related her experiences to him. The cook was called
to her room, who confirmed the cake and the banana.
Mary Francis' husband ventured forth to their daughter 's school
and inquired qua what the class was doing at whatever time of day
her body was dead: the spelling test was confirmed
and at the end of the day, her daughter came home with the misspelled word.

OK
Another fact of nature:
under natural conditions of dropping temperatures as winter arrives
goldfish in ornamental ponds have been seen to get frozen,
who then swim away in good health when the warm weather returns.

Is that suficiently dead or not quite so dead?

So, deep turpor is a state that many cold blooded and several warm blooded animals can undergo. Bats can go into turpor where they almost lose a pulse. Hibernating bears, groundhogs.

Spring peepers have been frozen solid because they have a specialized enzyme production capability that , when the days shorten in their habitat regions, they produce a specific enzyme that lets their blood freeze without blowing out their cell styructure. Theyve got an antifreeze . During the entire winter, these creatures just lie deep in frozen mud with no electrical conductive signals in their bodies. When the ice melts, there is areversal of the enzymatic reaction and the frogs come back to life