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Why Did Roman Polanski Run Away?

 
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 12:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s ...(and the girls to me).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 12:52 pm
@Francis,
Toutes les femmes à toi? Shocked

Un minuscule nombre pour moi, s'il te plaît.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 01:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Tu peux les garder toutes, Walter.

I have my share..
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 01:49 pm
@Francis,
Well, I suppose, I can't handle more ..., too Wink
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 02:30 pm
This is a pretty good result, now all three parties (the US, Switzerland, Polanski) can drag out the process, Polanski can finish his film and live some quality years, and upon his death the estate can presumably reclaim the bail money.

Polanski is punished, but not the the degree that the barbaric Americans would like, the punishment is reasonable.

Hopefully this is the end of the story.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 02:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
The determination of guilt or "reasonable" punishment is something that is done by established legal process. Guilt or innocence is determined by a jury and the punishment by the law and, depending on the jurisdiction and specific crimes, in part by the judge and in some cases the jury. In any event it isn't either you or I who do that.

Polanski copped a plea and then fled the country before sentence was laid down by the judge, based on his allegations that the judge might not abide by unstated provisions of the "deal". No judicial process has yet established the facts or their significance with respect to this mattter. The reason for this is that Polanski knowingly fled to countries that, for their own reasons, refused to extradite him - and he has remained in this status for many years now.

The simple fact is that justice in this matter has not yet been done. Those who appeal to the law as the foundation of justice and then support Polanski's escaping extradition are simply contradicting themselves and being deceitful about their real intentions and motives. The original crime in this case was a serious one, and the victim was a minor. The passage of time is indeed a limiting factor for some crimes, statutes of limitations define time limits for the initiation of criminal charges. However, nowhere do these limitations apply to accused criminals who unlawfully flee the reach of justice and thereby prevent its action.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 02:51 pm
@georgeob1,
As you know in my opinion Justice is now unobtainable. However, were we are now is a good place to park this mess. Polanski is pretty old, he will end the question soon enough by dying.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Would you apply that principle to (say) Bernie Madoff?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:26 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The original crime in this case was a serious one, and the victim was a minor.


Hmm. When someone was unlawfully killed - it's a serious crime and the victim is dead.
I mean without dany doubt this was a serious crime. The California Penal Code defines unlawful sexual intercourse as sexual contact with minors, anyone under 18. So it's actually not needed at all to point this at this legal definition; that really doesn't make a crime more serious but is bad tabloid-style.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:36 pm
@georgeob1,
no, because Madoff can be face his peers in judgment in a courtroom where standards of behaviour at the time of the crime will be applied. There is no way for peers to judge now Polanski by 1970's standards, and the current standards are far removed from what they were then.

The US did not hardly attempt to bring Polanski to justice for 30 years, thus we gave up the right to judge him. Justice delayed is justice denied...Polanski ran, which is bad and was his fault, we did not go get him which was our fault. The delay in justice was more our fault then his, we are morally wrong for trying to go after him at this late date. What we are doing is much worse than what Polanski did by running, because as David pointed out he had a duty to protect himself from what looked to him like an unjust justice system. What Polanski did has some justification. What we have done/not done over the course of 30 years has NO justification.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:43 pm
George wrote:
Would you apply that principle to (say) Bernie Madoff?


It can certainly be envisioned, George.

Imagine Madoff runs from justice and lives in a different country for 30 years.

Meanwhile, he reached an agreement with his victims.

Given the current evolution of financial mores, do you think justice can be done thirty years from now in Madoff's case?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:48 pm
@Francis,
Quote:
It can certainly be envisioned, George.

Imagine Madoff runs from justice and lives in a different country for 30 years


The criminals do not write international law, the criminals are not responsible for break downs in international cooperation which allow them to run from justice by moving to a different jurisdiction. Kindly put the blame were it belongs.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

no, because Madoff can be face his peers in judgment in a courtroom where standards of behaviour at the time of the crime will be applied. There is no way for peers to judge now Polanski by 1970's standards, and the current standards are far removed from what they were then.



I believe the charges involved (1) forcible rape and (2) providing unlawful drugs to a minor. I'm not aware that the legal standards applicaple to these acts are materially different now compared to then.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

The US did not hardly attempt to bring Polanski to justice for 30 years, thus we gave up the right to judge him. Justice delayed is justice denied...Polanski ran, which is bad and was his fault, we did not go get him which was our fault. The delay in justice was more our fault then his, we are morally wrong for trying to go after him at this late date. What we are doing is much worse than what Polanski did by running, because as David pointed out he had a duty to protect himself from what looked to him like an unjust justice system. What Polanski did has some justification. What we have done/not done over the course of 30 years has NO justification.


Frankly I don't know how much (or little) effort our government exerted in attempts to get him. I believe his first destination was France and the French government did indeed refuse our official request for extradition - at a time when the crime was fresh and the victim still uncompensated. (Thus the rationalizations being offered here and now for justice delayed had no bearing on the then contemporaneous decision of the French government.)

Marc Rich lived happily for years in Switzerland after accumulating a great deal of wealth while in this country in direct violation of U.S. law . He later bribed president Clinton into granting him a pardon - so I suppose the law was satisfied. However, I wasn't very pleased.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:34 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I'm not aware that the legal standards applicaple to these acts are materially different now compared to then.


Our standards for acceptable power use in sexual relations, specifically our standards for acceptable sex between young people and adults is completely changed. It is now assumed that the young person who is sexual with an older person has been the victim of power being applied, it is now not allowed. During the 70's May/ September sexual relationships were considered unusual but a valid form of sexual freedom. At the time we understood that power is often a part of sex, finding power dynamics in sexual relationships in no way negated the validity of the sexual relationship.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 06:18 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
and the victim still uncompensated.


What had she suffered George? Was it anything like what some of the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq have suffered?

Don't you think that if you are going to start calling for compensation you ought to start with the soldiers or do you prefer getting overexcited by underage girls having a go on the casting couch?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 06:56 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Don't you think that if you are going to start calling for compensation you ought to start with the soldiers or do you prefer getting overexcited by underage girls having a go on the casting couch?


I assume that you are referring to the fact that originally Polanski got a pass because most people thought that the girl got exactly what she wanted, and that Polanski was the victim here...of a woman using her sexual seductiveness to lure a man into doing something stupid.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 07:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I'm not aware that the legal standards applicaple to these acts are materially different now compared to then.


Our standards for acceptable power use in sexual relations, specifically our standards for acceptable sex between young people and adults is completely changed. It is now assumed that the young person who is sexual with an older person has been the victim of power being applied, it is now not allowed. During the 70's May/ September sexual relationships were considered unusual but a valid form of sexual freedom. At the time we understood that power is often a part of sex, finding power dynamics in sexual relationships in no way negated the validity of the sexual relationship.
You are an idiot, as well as a liar and sicko. He wouldn't have been charged with several crimes, had his behavior not been considered criminal in the 70's. The law was as clear then as it is now. Drug raping kids was as illegal, abhorrent, and demented then as it is now, and only a demented sicko like you would argue otherwise.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 07:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It can certainly be envisioned, George.

Imagine Madoff runs from justice and lives in a different country for 30 years


The criminals do not write international law, the criminals are not responsible for break downs in international cooperation which allow them to run from justice by moving to a different jurisdiction. Kindly put the blame were it belongs.
This requires no effort at all. 100% of the blame lies with the piece of **** who drug raped a kid and then ran and cowered in France for decades. Blaming anyone other than the self-confessed rapist is an exercise in idiocy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 07:36 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
This requires no effort at all. 100% of the blame lies with the piece of **** who drug raped a kid and then ran and cowered in France for decades. Blaming anyone other than the self-confessed rapist is an exercise in idiocy.


In your dreams buddy. Only a few idiots of your ilk are willing to give your profession a free pass for ******* this case up. The rest of us see shades of grey when it comes to blame for justice gone wrong.
 

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