Patriotism: Trash or Treasure?

Love of one's country has nothing whatever to do with politics as that word is usually understood. It is perfectly possible (and sometimes necessary) for a patriot who loves his country to abhor and detest the administrators and executives of that country. I would change that old shibboleth "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" to read "An appeal to patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

MA

Then you would categorize any leader who makes a plea for patriots to defend their country as a scoundrel or only those leaders with whom you do not agree?. That quote, IMO, is the worst possible useage of a few good words and should be targeted as the words of a fool who lacks anything intelligent to say.

Defend: as in repel invaders, or prevent attacks by enemies. Not to ilegally invade other nations. The patirotism the far right gets all misty eyed over would have made the Nazis proud.

Perception - I was not asking that the politics be removed - just the weary stream of insults - from both sides!

But - as I said - I only set the table.....I ain't the boss.

I think hobitbob touched on one of the more obvious corruptions of patriotism; the use of the word "defend" and "defense" is a good example of how agendas are often pre-loaded into the idea of love for one's country. Our "values" and "defense" of our nation are often marketed as if it's axiomatic that the attached agenda is inherent to our nation's ideals.

I had a good idea? Ah, me, certainly a sign of impending apocalypse!

Should I better go in a bunker or to church now?

Hey, even a clock that's stopped.. aww just kiddin'.

Merry Andrew also made an excellent point when he ammended the saying to say: "An appeal to patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

I agree without reservation. If patriotism is defined as a personal emotion then an appeal to pariotism to further an agenda is about as honest as an appeal to your love for your mother on Mother's Day by Mother's Day merchants.

"Do you love your mother? Then buy her something from us so we can make money off you!"

"Are you a patriot? Then you must support our anti-immigration agenda and our religious initiatives!"

Patriotism is so divided along partisan lines in America because of the embedding of agendas in the emotion.

Things like xenophobia are so routinely embedded in "patriotism" that it's not uncommon for entire political affiliations to reject a definition of patriotism.

Patriotism and nationalism are the same thing for all intents and purposes. They differ greatly in some aspects, but the results are the same. For example, American patriotism is based on belief in American ideals and political values, while nationalism in other nations is based on past glories and historical grievances. American patriotism is largly heart-felt and voluntary, while in many other nationlistic nations, the government aggressivly promotes nationalism. There are many more differences. However, the ramifications are always the same.

hobit, Your avatar has the word Japan included on it. Do you know what the wording means?

When are we going to rev up the "stirring rendition" of "beasts of England"?

BEASTS OF ENGLAND, BEASTS OF IRELAND
Beasts of England, beasts of Ireland,
Beasts of every land and clime,
Hearken to my joyful tidings
Of the golden future time.

Soon or late the day is coming,
Tyrant Man shall be o'erthrown,
And the fruitful fields of England
Shall be trod by beasts alone.


Rings shall vanish from our noses,
And the harness from our back,
Bit and spur shall rust forever,
Cruel whips no more shall crack.


Riches more than mind can picture,
Wheat and barley, oats and hay,
Clover, beans, and mangel-wurzels
Shall be ours upon that day.


Bright will shine the fields of England,
Purer shall its waters be,
Sweeter yet shall blow its breezes
On the day that sets us free.


For that day we all must labour,
Though we die before it break;
Cows and horses, geese and turkeys,
All must toil for Freedom's sake.


-George Orwell- Animal Farm

(And here is a site including the tune: http://www.southlakems.org/AnimalFarm/JonathanAlex/beast_of_england.htm )

Happy? LOL

(Deb's note to self for future use when I can post properly: de?vo?tion

Pronunciation: (di-vO'shun), [key]
?n.
1. profound dedication; consecration.
2. earnest attachment to a cause, person, etc.
3. an assignment or appropriation to any purpose, cause, etc.: the devotion of one's wealth and time to scientific advancement.
4. Often, devotions. Eccles.religious observance or worship; a form of prayer or worship for special use.

Patriotism--just like anything else, I think--when perverted, taken to a unintended extreme, or practiced by agenda-bound folks--can be ugly.

But, I take issue with the so-called Balancing Voices, who don't trust people to be patriotic, but also humane and tolerant of others. The Balancing Voicers, in my opinion, set themselves piously above everyone else, and squeak their discontent at ideas, and what those ideas may possibly signify--instead of meeting each individual where they are, and discussing issues. They tend to characterize and stigmatize by groups, and belittle the views of those not agreeing with the liberal view. The masses are stupid, I read; some people shouldn't be allowed to vote, I have read in this forum... This is an increasing behavior/sentiment of the liberals--a tenet of Socialism and elitism, which I reject. The practitioners must have quite a lofty, better than thou opinion of themselves. They are not content to allow people to speak for themselves--they interpret the lower masses' thoughts, and rail against their own interpretations. We have them to thank for Political Correctness--making others' ashamed of certain words, not so much the emotion behind them--and now, the elitist Balancing Voicers are working to construct their gift of groupthink to this country. We will tell you what you are thinking, and why it is wrong.

What is wrong with patriotism? (Loving one's country?)

Sophia

Well said Sophia-----my sentiments exactly.

Can someone translate?

I really don't know, why IM just thinking of this old song:


We don't want to fight, yet by jingo, if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men,
And got the money, too![/b]

Was that what the Germans were chanting as they marched through Poland into France?

"The term Jingoism came in use after this popular music-hall song by G. W. Hunt, which appeared at the time of the Russo-Turkish War (1877-8), when anti-Russian feeling ran high and Disraeli (the British Prime Minister of the day) ordered the Mediterranean fleet to Constantinople. The Russophobes became known as Jingoes, and any belligerent patriotism has been labelled jingoism ever since."

Found this via the web. Can't vouch for it accuracy, but it looks plausible...

I doubt that mayn Germans could speak English so well at those times.

And, indeed, Jingoism is actually an English term, "invented" after what D'artagnan found above. (From britannica: [...] Supporters of the British government's policy toward Russia came to be called jingoes as a result of the phrase "by jingo," which appeared in the refrain of a popular song:
....)