Butrflynet, hee, hee, no leggings in bed!
More pics of Timber on the Madison thread, please.
Our Miss Bunny has asked why one's love of place, and setting and people (to use a non-political description which might be termed patriotism) stops at a border. I believe that it usually does not extend as far as a national border. I believe that it only extends so far as one experiences a sense of familiarity of one's physical and cultural world. That in large measure explains why the idea is so easily exploited by political demagogues. They need only convince the patriot that the "other," those who inhabit a different locale and culture, threaten that locale and culture which the patriot holds dear.
Perfectly put, setanta.
I also find that I put down patriotism when speaking with one such as perception, but jack it up with people more cynical than I.
A very cogent as well as honest statement, EB. I applaud your candor.
LOL you two!
Very nice NIMH!
no more about bums, pleeease!!!!!!!!
National borders, hell! We were taught this stuff in high school. In football season, patriotism ends at the boundaries of your school district.
I get your drift too, edgar.
set
That, I think, is absolutely correct.
Nice one Edgar! It'd also explain why the most patriotic sense more vehement elements of "Anti-Patriotism" more often than the more mildly patriotic.
More mores.
I was in Montana for the week end. A nice place to visit.........but I sure wouldn't wanna.......live there.....Beautiful, dry, under populated for my taste. And I had a sense of being out of my place (not extreme, but the sense was there.) If the people in Montana wanted to militantly make New York City into a place like Montana, I would be upset about it. I have a real sense of love for the environment and type of people I prefer. I know the Montanans feel the same about their place and life style. They have all sorts of laws inhibiting the rate of growth.
So in answer to dlowan's question......I think I do stop loving those who are outside the borders of my place, or at least I don't love them as much as those I'm with. I have a sense of good will about others and I love it that they can live as they please, just as I do. But if they try to make me do as they think I should do, if they try to turn everybody into the their version of the "right" way, then I'll defend my freedom in whatever way I have at my disposal. This would be self defense. And about self defense, I am patriotic, I suppose. I see the current administration and the neocons (including Georgie's brother Jeb) and the terrorists in the same way. And I'll fight them because I don't want my freedom taken away. And I don't want patriotism used as a tool to trick me into supporting an unnecessary war. A war fought for any reason other than self defense is criminal, IMHO, and should not be excused as a "patriotic" act.
<widens eyes, staggers - then bursts out in laughter>
where the **** did you find that, Walter! :-D :-D
<still grinning and giggling>
dA-Amn ... <shakes head>
thAT was funny.
freaky thing is, that guy even kinda looks like me.
xcept, of course, i would never wear THAT. <grins>
(not to mention the whole 'holding-a-scarf-up-in-the-air' thing ... <giggles>)
Walter, many know the internet well but you produce some gems!
nimh wrote:
where the F*** [sic!] did you find that, Walter! :-D :-D
Internet and a little bit eigengemaakt :wink:
Hmmm - (plots to find more ways of driving Edgar into paroxysms of patriotism - just for fun) - I think most of us instinctively "balance" in debates - I know I do - it is more fun that way.
Perhaps I could pretend to be a patriot, and see who changed their arguments? heehee
Don't you think the "balancing" is closely related to PC, or just plain dishonest? It seems opposed to saying what you mean, and meaning what you say.
Your opinion--when you "balance"-- changes depending on who you are talking to--
Sofia said: "Don't you think the "balancing" is closely related to PC, or just plain dishonest? It seems opposed to saying what you mean, and meaning what you say.
Your opinion--when you "balance"-- changes depending on who you are talking to--"
Trust you to find a negative interpretation Sofia! No I don't...here is why.
a. It has nothing to do with PC - you must dream about PC!
b. If you like to debate - which I do, and so do many others - it is both fun, and instructive, to take different sides - or subtly different sides - either to enhance debate, or to have an opportunity to really test out the reasonableness of your position, or both. Usually both, I would think - since I, for instance, often change my position on an issue over time - not generally during the debate (unless it is really long and immediate), but in thinking about it afterwards.
c. It is not "corrective" in intent - but somewhat instinctive, I think - or curiosity or fun-based - (what is the fun in expressing nothing but agreement? Pleasant, I am sure, but nowhere near so like a discussion...) - or, as I said, knowledge and challenge to oneself based.
Dishonest? If you think that there is but one opinion - held tightly and seriously - no nuance or doubt - then it might be seen to be dishonest - perhaps I am too politically incorrect for you Sofia, since there would be few opinions I would hold so tightly? I consider my opinions opinions - the only thing I know for sure is that they will change, to some extent, or another, over time. Partly, or largely, through testing them out, and learning, in debates - so I have an interest in good ones.
Actually, I lie, a little - there IS a corrective element - self-corrective - I think arguing from the other side, or from another viewpoint is very illuminating.
I may be off-line for a bit since its been discovered that I have a quest to outdo Stalin and Hilter by killing 150 million P.C. Patriots, I now need to upgrade my puter to an 80 gig hard drive in order to create a data base of my intended victims. I do, however need some assistance from my fellow A2krs in establishing exactly what is a P.C. Patriot (please limit criteria to 10 or less fields as i am using DBase which takes longer to sort on key fields)
is magic, a veritable encyclopedia. 
