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Blue Brain

 
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 07:57 pm
By Michael Hanlon
Last updated at 8:45 AM on 11th August 2009

Professor Markram claims he plans to build an electronic human brain 'within the next ten years'
There are only a handful of scientific revolutions that would really change the world. An immortality pill would be one. A time machine would be another.
Faster-than-light travel, allowing the stars to be explored in a human lifetime, would be on the shortlist, too.
To my mind, however, the creation of an artificial mind would probably trump all of these - a development that would throw up an array of bewildering and complex moral and philosophical quandaries. Amazingly, it might also be within reach.
For while time machines, eternal life potions and Star Trek-style warp drives are as far away as ever, a team of scientists in Switzerland is claiming that a fully-functioning replica of a human brain could be built by 2020.
This isn't just pie-in-the-sky. The Blue Brain project, led by computer genius Henry Markram - who is also the director of the Centre for Neuroscience & Technology and the Brain Mind Institute - has for the past five years been engineering the mammalian brain, the most complex object known in the Universe, using some of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.
And last month, Professor Markram claimed, at a conference in Oxford, that he plans to build an electronic human brain 'within ten years'.
If he is right, nothing will be the same again. But can such an extraordinary claim be credible? When we think of artificial minds, we inevitably think of the sort of machines that have starred in dozens of sci-fi movies.
Indeed, most scientists - and science fiction writers - have tended to concentrate on the nuts and bolts of robotics: how you make artificial muscles; how you make a machine see and hear; how you give it realistic skin and enough tendons and ligaments underneath that skin to allow it to smile convincingly.
But what tends to be glossed over is by far the most complex problem of all: how you make a machine think.
This problem is one of the central questions of modern philosophy and goes to the very heart of what we know, or rather do not know, about the human mind.
Most of us imagine that the brain is rather like a computer. And in many ways, it is. It processes data and can store quite prodigious amounts of information.
'They are copying a brain without understanding it'
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But in other ways, a brain is quite unlike a computer. For while our computers are brilliant at calculating the weather forecast and modelling the effects of nuclear explosions - tasks most often assigned to the most powerful machines - they still cannot 'think'.
We cannot be sure this is the case. But no one thinks that the laptop on your desk or even the powerful mainframes used by the Met Office can, in any meaningful sense, have a mind.
So what is it, in that three pounds of grey jelly, that gives rise to the feeling of conscious self-awareness, the thoughts and emotions, the agonies and ecstasies that comprise being a human being?
This is a question that has troubled scientists and philosophers for centuries. The traditional answer was to assume that some sort of 'soul' pervades the brain, a mysterious 'ghost in the machine' which gives rise to the feeling of self and consciousness.
If this is the case, then computers, being machines not flesh and blood, will never think. We will never be able to build a robot that will feel pain or get angry, and the Blue Brain project will fail.
But very few scientists still subscribe to this traditional 'dualist' view - 'dualist' because it assumes 'mind' and 'matter' are two separate things.
Instead, most neuroscientists believe that our feelings of self-awareness, pain, love and so on are simply the result of the countless billions of electrical and chemical impulses that flit between its equally countless billions of neurons.

So if you build something that works exactly like a brain, consciousness, at least in theory, will follow.
In fact, several teams are working to prove this is the case by attempting to build an electronic brain. They are not attempting to build flesh and blood brains like modern-day Dr Frankensteins.

They are using powerful mainframe computers to 'model' a brain. But, they say, the result will be just the same.
Two years ago, a team at IBM's Almaden research lab at Nevada University used a BlueGene/L Supercomputer to model half a mouse brain.
Half a mouse brain consists of about eight million neurons, each of which can form around 8,000 links with neighbouring cells.
Creating a virtual version of this pushes a computer to the limit, even machines which, like the BlueGene, can perform 20trillion calculations a second.
The 'mouse' simulation was run for about ten seconds at a speed a tenth as fast as an actual rodent brain operates. Nevertheless, the scientists said they detected tell-tale patterns believed to correspond with the 'thoughts' seen by scanners in real-life mouse brains.
It is just possible a fleeting, mousey, 'consciousness' emerged in the mind of this machine. But building a thinking, remembering human mind is more difficult. Many neuroscientists claim the human brain is too complicated to copy.
'Turning it off might be seen as murder'
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Markram's team is undaunted. They are using one of the most powerful computers in the world to replicate the actions of the 100billion neurons in the human brain. It is this approach - essentially copying how a brain works without necessarily understanding all of its actions - that will lead to success, the team hopes. And if so, what then?
Well, a mind, however fleeting and however shorn of the inevitable complexities and nuances that come from being embedded in a body, is still a mind, a 'person'. We would effectively have created a 'brain in a vat'. Conscious, aware, capable of feeling, pain, desire. And probably terrified.
And if it were modelled on a human brain, we would then have real ethical dilemmas. If our 'brain' - effectively just a piece of extremely impressive computer software - could be said to know it exists, then do we assign it rights?
Would turning it off constitute murder? Would performing experiments upon it constitute torture?
And there are other questions, too, questions at the centre of the nurture versus nature debate. Would this human mind, for example, automatically feel guilt or would it need to be 'taught' a sense of morality first? And how would it respond to religion? Indeed, are these questions that a human mind asks of its own accord, or must it be taught to ask them first?
Thankfully, we are probably a long way from having to confront these issues. It is important to stress that not one scientist has provided anything like a convincing explanation for how the brain works, let alone shown for sure that it would be possible to replicate this in a machine.
Not one computer or robot has come near passing the famous 'Turing Test', devised by the brilliant Cambridge scientist Alan Turing in 1950, to prove whether a machine could think.
It is a simple test in which someone is asked to communicate, using a screen and keyboard, with a computer trying to mimic a human, and another, real human. If the judge cannot tell the machine from the other person, the computer has 'passed' the test. So far, every computer we have built has failed.
Yet, if the Blue Brain project succeeds, in a few decades - perhaps sooner - we will be looking at the creation of a new intelligent lifeform on Earth. And the ethical dilemmas we face when it comes to experimenting on animals in the name of science will pale into insignificance when faced with the potential torments of our new machine mind.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 9 • Views: 946 • Replies: 19
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:20 pm
@edgarblythe,
Oh. I thought this was going to be about collodial silver, or something.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:31 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Oh. I thought this was going to be about collodial silver, or something.


I already have a few threads on that. I want to know what my learned fellow members think about scientists creating human intelligence using electronics.
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:32 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
[...] a team of scientists in Switzerland is claiming that a fully-functioning replica of a human brain could be built by 2020. [...]

It's a nice story, but I do have to admit that I'm rather skeptical on the above claim.

I don't believe that the human brain will ever be duplicated and working in the same way as the human brain works. Certainly not to "think", and in other words, to be able to come up with original material all on its own.

For example, programs that play chess make many calculations per second, but don't "play" chess like humans do.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:33 pm
Those chess machines are child's play alongside a project such as the one in my story.
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
Oh, I realize that, but, in my opinion, scientists won't be able to make an artificial brain that thinks like humans do. That's my prediction.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 09:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
I knew that. My fingers just kind of took over.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 04:26 am
I would have given it a different title, had I known people would associate my name and the word blue so definitively with colloidal silver.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 05:08 am
@edgarblythe,
Human brains sometimes operate on hunches. How dioes one quantify a hunch when there isnt even any reason for it to be a logical option?
I think the blues brain will fail to even come close to thinking like we do.
Being right for the wrong reasons is often a system outcome also.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 05:45 am
Whether or not we will ever create intelligence with electronics is an interesting question. The claim that we can do it in 10 years is pure quackery.

I work in the field of speech recognition (i.e. getting computers to turn voice into words on the screen). The state of the art in this field is statistics... we calculate which set of words is most likely given the frequencies in the audio. There is no attempt to have the software "understand" anything, we simply know that the phrase "breast cancer" is more likely than the phrase "blessed cancel".

Technology to give computers any "understanding" of what language means (a key of passing the Turing test) is at its infancy.

This guy is claiming to have something in ten years!

If there is some way to bet against him.... I would take it in a second.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 09:20 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

By Michael Hanlon
Last updated at 8:45 AM on 11th August 2009

Professor Markram claims he plans to build an electronic human brain 'within the next ten years'

I have my doubts regarding his claim.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:12 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown,

We agree on this one !
Believe it or not I was doing speech recognition research in the 70's. Are person specific acoustic tranformations being used yet ?
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:00 pm
I agree with Reyn and all other sceptics on this thread. The human brain does a hell of a lot more than just sort data and make decisions. As Farmer has already pointed out, a lot of the time decisions are made on best guesses and there's really no way to quantify that. Human intelligence is way too complex to be duplicated by anything mechanical.

I could be wrong.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:44 pm
The skeptics are probably, in the main, correct - for the foreseeable future. But, human ingenuity never says die.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:52 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

roger wrote:

Oh. I thought this was going to be about collodial silver, or something.


I already have a few threads on that. I want to know what my learned fellow members think about scientists creating human intelligence using electronics.
Its risky.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:57 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

roger wrote:

Oh. I thought this was going to be about collodial silver, or something.


I already have a few threads on that. I want to know what my learned fellow members think about scientists creating human intelligence using electronics.
Its risky.


Seems to me it would only be risky if the created intelligence were given access to forms of personal power that could be used against humans.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 02:06 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
I want to know what my learned fellow members think about scientists creating human intelligence using electronics.

I think it's inevitable. But I think true machine intelligence is still many decades away, possibly more than a century away.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 02:08 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

roger wrote:

Oh. I thought this was going to be about collodial silver, or something.


I already have a few threads on that. I want to know what my learned fellow members think about scientists creating human intelligence using electronics.
Its risky.


Seems to me it would only be risky if the created intelligence were given access to forms of personal power that could be used against humans.
If A.I. is smarter than we are,
the genie will fight to get out of the bottle.

About 18 years ago, the brightest fellow I ever met in Mensa,
an engineer, told me that its too late already: the genie is out.





David
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 02:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
About 18 years ago, the brightest fellow I ever met in Mensa, an engineer, told me that its too late already: the genie is out.

Yup, that sounds like something a MENSA idiot would say.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 02:11 pm
@rosborne979,

I hope that he was rong
(for all that matters).
0 Replies
 
 

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