dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
probably true, on the other hand it was also probably true that Bill Clinton was the only person that could have made it happen, or do you think George Bush could have sent one of his cohorts and had the same result?
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
Even better. I prefer H. Clinton and Obama be driving foreign policy. If they can use B. Clinton as the front man to make it go down better, great.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
I agree totally, hawk. President Clinton was sent there to finalize the pre-negotiated deal. Nothing more and nothing less. He was uncharacteristically quiet when they landed in CA.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:30 pm
@dyslexia,
the US was given two options, clinton and as I recall John Kerry. Clinton was picked because with him the US could with a shred of credibility claim that this was a private visit, not an official one. The US wants to claim that these tactics did not get a submissive response from the US government, even though in reality it did and even though the North Koreans will claim that it did.

dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
and the ladies are home free.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:34 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
President Clinton was sent there to finalize the pre-negotiated deal. Nothing more and nothing less. He was uncharacteristically quiet when they landed in CA.

That would not surprise me....one does not get to be POTUS without sporting one humongous ego, being irrelevant is not a comfort zone for these guys.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
Yet the N. Koreans have claimed no such thing. N. Korea wanted an excuse to get the US to talk. Obama also wants to talk. N. Korea has nothing to offer the US as a gesture. The US can offer all sorts of things, but that puts an onus on the N. Koreans to reciprocate and they have nothing. It costs us nothing to make the gesture and allow them to "generously" return our citizens. Really, it costs us nothing. It doesn't diminish the US in any way. Europe considers this the way your are supposed to handle diplomacy so they aren't going to think poorly of us. In case you haven't noticed, other totalitarian governments already imprison our citizens on ridiculous charges, so this is hardly encouraging them. I know there are those in the US who would let US citizens rot rather than make a minimal effort if they somehow perceived an insult to US pride, but I'm glad the current administration is not included in that number.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 06:55 pm
@uncannie,
uncannie wrote:

It's just not the same now that we have an intelligent, articulate statesman in the Oval Office.


well, that can be fixed easily by voting palin in 2012.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:01 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

works for me.


awwwww... y'all libruls just don't understand that just because something is good, doesn't mean that it is good...

0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
All we got in return was two individuals. We got the short end.


that's cold bra..... what if one o' them individuals was your wife? or your sister, or daughter?
0 Replies
 
marsz
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 07:48 pm
This time around, final judgment of the mission may revolve around whatever North Korea meant in a report saying that Clinton and Kim had had "candid and in-depth discussion on the pending issues between the DPRK [Democratic People's Republic of Korea] and the US in a sincere atmosphere and reached a consensus of views on seeking a negotiated settlement of them".

It will be up to the Clintons, Bill and Hillary, to explain what was "negotiated" and what "consensus of views" was reached - if any

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/ea_nkorea0622_08_05.asp
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:05 pm
Quote:
Now that President Bill Clinton has extricated Laura Ling and Euna Lee from North Korea, the hard work begins.

There are new indications that North Korea may be transferring nuclear weapons technology to Myanmar, the dictatorship also known as Burma, and that it earlier supplied a reactor to Syria. For many years, based on five visits to North Korea and its border areas, I’ve argued for an “engagement” approach toward Pyongyang, but now I’ve reluctantly concluded that we need more sticks.
.
..
.
All this was eerily foreshadowed by the North Koreans themselves. Michael Green, who ran Asian affairs for a time in the Bush White House, says that in March 2003, a North Korean official " with hands shaking " read out to him and other American officials a warning: We have a nuclear deterrent. If you don’t end your hostile policy, we will demonstrate, expand and transfer it.

“They’ve done all those things,” Mr. Green notes.

At times in the past, there seemed hope for diplomacy aimed at coaxing North Korea into giving up its nuclear program and joining the concert of nations. These days that seems virtually hopeless.

“Formal diplomatic engagement aimed at rolling back their nuclear program has run its course, at least for the time being,” says Mitchell Reiss, a North Korea expert and former senior State Department official who is now at the College of William and Mary. “The facts have changed. You have to change your strategy.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/opinion/06kristof.html

and yet Obama is willing to play patty cake over two individuals, the US is defending sending an ex president to mollify the north Koreans on the grounds that maybe the Koreans will now be ready to come back to negotiations.

Obama is naive, dangerously so.
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 06:22 am
@hawkeye10,
"So what if the maniacal Kim Jong-Il asked for the former president specifically"so it wasn’t exactly a stroke of genius to enlist him for the mission." http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/229/billrsquo3bs-backmdash3band-so-are-the-bill-haters.html
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 07:22 am
Any way you look at it, it is good those two journalist got to return home.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 07:36 am
@realjohnboy,
Apparently Iran has strong immigration laws and arrest anyone not entering the country legally. These were travelers not anyone sent acting out of a official US capacity. I hope they are released soon and treated humanely in the interim.

Iran questions detained Americans

0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 08:05 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

todays report of the background story have it that Clinton was the bait and the collection man, he had no part in negotiations. Nothing Clinton might have said or done was of any consequence.


obviously, without Clinton it wouldn't have happened. call it bait or whatever you like...the two reporters are home. Had Obama offered to send Dick Cheney or george bush I'm sure that would not be the case. I would apologize to Dys for posting basically identically to him...but I don't like him.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 08:39 am
who would ever have imagined that a story involving bill clinton commandeering a private jet to fly to an asian country and return with two women would be a good story
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 08:55 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Quote:
obviously, without Clinton it wouldn't have happened


Obviously, because it was clinton whom was summoned by the North Koreans
Quote:
And during a July call, Ms. Ling and Ms. Lee told their families that the North Koreans had told them that they would be willing to grant them amnesty if “an envoy in the person of President Clinton would agree to come to Pyongyang and seek their release,” according to a senior Obama administration official who briefed reporters.

The proposal was then reported to Mr. Gore, who passed it on to Mr. Clinton


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/us/06families.html?_r=1&hp

what is the price of an Obama visit, 10 Americans??
When we pay the ransom we encourage the snatching of Americans...it is not in our interest to do so.



farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 09:12 am
@hawkeye10,
Its rather funny. The GOP operatives were caught on this one. They didnt have time to spin it with anything believable.
The only thing theyve come up with is to question what the Koreans will want next.
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 12:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
obviously, without Clinton it wouldn't have happened


Obviously, because it was clinton whom was summoned by the North Koreans
Quote:
And during a July call, Ms. Ling and Ms. Lee told their families that the North Koreans had told them that they would be willing to grant them amnesty if “an envoy in the person of President Clinton would agree to come to Pyongyang and seek their release,” according to a senior Obama administration official who briefed reporters.

The proposal was then reported to Mr. Gore, who passed it on to Mr. Clinton


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/us/06families.html?_r=1&hp

what is the price of an Obama visit, 10 Americans??
When we pay the ransom we encourage the snatching of Americans...it is not in our interest to do so.






so it wouldn't have happenmed without Clinton.... as I said....
0 Replies
 
 

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