Guest ettiquette: Sozlet's fish revisited.

http://able2know.org/topic/133668-1

I was thinking along the same lines. But I probably would say - that a proper guest does not tell the host how to behave or something along those lines.

As far as being a good guest, I always discuss this with my girls before the spend the day at a friend's house/with a friend's family - remember to always say please and thank you. To behave, etc. And in the end I threaten - you will not be invited over again if you are not a good guest. I usually get the eye roll - I know, I know. And then when they come home I ask if they said please, thank you, etc. I figure if I keep drilling it in their heads eventually they will hear (at least bits and pieces).

One thought - how close are you to Nick's parents? Would they take offense if you told them what he said - maybe in a way, like - I know he didn't mean it and that it is a result of you teaching him the polite way to behave, sort of way? I mean, I would like to know if my kids said something like that so I can correct them.

Thanks Region -- yeah, a quote from there:



So I totally understand what you mean.

I think it does become an issue at eight in a way it hasn't really been earlier -- you give them more behavioral leeway when they're littler, at eight it starts to be hey, you're old enough to know better. Maybe. Anyway, it does seem like I deal with it more lately.

We do talk about being a guest -- waiting for things to be offered rather than just baldly asking is one I remember covering. (As in, not saying "Can I have some ice cream?" but happily accepting ice cream if offered and happily accepting the lack of ice cream if it's not offered.)

Another thing is that sozlet knows she should help her friends clean up any mess she helped make at their house before she leaves. Her friends don't always do that in turn (her good friends do), and she gets grumpy about it. (They ones who don't frequently pull "I'm a guest, I don't have to.") She doesn't get grumpy to them when they're here but grumps to me about it after they leave (and after she's faced with a giant mess to clean up single-handedly -- I do suggest they just not make the giant mess in the first place but every once in a while it's Hurricane Sozfriends). One way I dealt with that recently is that she grumped, I asked "are you more or less interested in having G over for a playdate next time?" she said "less," I cocked an eyebrow at her and she said "ohhhh..." She just kind of got that the person may have had the "right" to refuse to help at all but there are still consequences.

Anyway, the theme of my last thread was trying to figure out when to go ahead and -- I guess "parent"? -- other people's kids. (The words "correct" and "chastise" didn't go over well on the other thread, "parent" may be more what I'm going for anyway.) I think it sounds like you handled that part well.

That recently came up with the same friend as the fish situation, K. I took the girls to a local event, they were goofing around. They brought a trick ring of sozlet's -- hidden bulb, put water in, squirt people. K squirted a girl who flipped out. I only saw the immediate aftermath of the squirting -- the girl (M, someone they know) threw clumps of dirt at K, screamed, started sobbing, and ran to her parents. K and sozlet stood there gape-mouthed and then trailed her. I met them all and tried to piece together what was going on as M's mom comforted M. I asked K if she'd apologized to M. K shook her head... didn't really do anything. I urged her along (definitely more a parenting thing than a host thing). She didn't really want to -- she felt like M's reaction was WAAAYY over the top for what actually happened. But I thought that the first step to resolution was for her to apologize anyway -- that's what I would have had sozlet do. (M has some behavioral issues and it wasn't completely surprising that she'd freak when startled by something like that.) She did. M rallied quickly and then everyone went and played for a while.

I talked to K later to make sure she was fine with it all, she was.

There definitely is some sort of function of time in all of this -- the more time you spend together, the less formal things get.

oops you beat me to it

And you beat me to the "good guests get invited back more often" part.

Dammit, you stole my line.

"Guests get first choice, that's true. Guests that want to be invited back, however...."

And I beat DrewDad to saying that Linkat beat us to...

Well, a consensus seems to be emerging at any rate.

Educate? Teach? Shape?

There's also this: different families have different rules, and different ways of treating guests. When one chooses to become a guest, one also chooses to behave by the rules of the host.

Mentor?

Oh my gosh. I hope I didn't make it sound like Nick was a problem or rude or something. I'm sure Mo does this too when he's at Nicks. I've heard other friends of Mo say this at the house.

I think it's probably taught as common courtesy that gets jumbled in someone's brain. I don't think Nick was trying to be a brat, I think he saw it as a way to control the situation.

Me: The pool or the beach?
Nick: The pool!
Mo: The beach!
Nick: I'm the guest so I get to choose.

More in a bit....

We have a rule that gloating, or rubbing someone's nose in their disappointment, automatically takes away that which they are gloating about.

Oh good grief!!!!


I think you handled this one as well as you can.


I do wonder if when I was a kid we fought it all out ourselves more?

I remember being bought some sort of amazing (to me) sort of wheel-like early frisbee thingy (went cheap when you bought petrol sort of thing.)


I had a friend there...we were about eight, I think.

Once adult-free, she mounted an intense campaign that I should give her my beloved throwy thing "because I am the guest and you have to give in to me."

I felt sort of torn, because I knew the guest rule, too...but I decided it didn't actually apply re such things as permanently giving her whatever she wanted.

The discussion was intense, heated, and there was no doubt who was going to win.



Maybe parents need to talk to kids about the whole guest thing in more socratic way....you know, a discussion that includes what guests' responsibilities are, the golden rule thing like Thomas discussed, that sort of thing.

I know I got many a lecture about how to be a good guest...and it certainly didn't include that I had the right to push everyone around...it was more on the "fit in smoothly"area.

So, basically the solution was to say to Nick "and doesnt your mother also say it's rude to point that out"?

I wish it was that easy, Chai, but it isn't. That might have solved the immediate problem but I wouldn't have learned how to help Mo learn to be a good guest. Telling an 8 year old that something is "rude" doesn't do much if you can't explain why it's rude. Especially when they've had it drilled into their heads that the polite thing to do is to let a guest do the choosing.

Nick and his brother, Joe, are both here today. I love Joe. He's the peacekeeper and he's working hard at it today. Mo really looks up to Joe (who is almost 10) so his loyalty gets divided between his best friend and his "hero". My attention is a little jangled.

After dlowan's post I'm thinking maybe it really is a developmental thing, sort of moving from that insanely super selfishe "me-ness" of young childhood and into the world at small. Like soz said -- they start getting a little more freedom and new boundries have to be learned.

It does teach mo a lesson in that you can now tell him that although when you are a guest you will (probably) be offered first choice, but you are not to take advantage of that by using that the way Nick did.

A guest has responsibilities as well as the host, and mo can learn from it not to be a whiney butt and keep saying "my mom says....."

mo lesson would be that he might be offered first choice by the host....but then again, he might not. In either event, he should be gracious.

I just don't deal with kids that are quite that rational, I guess.

Oy vey, this has resonance.

Would you like a pickle?

I don't care...

Huh?