17
   

How long would it take....

 
 
chai2
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:50 pm
hypothetical situation.

a catastrophy happens that leaves only small colonies of people alive on this planet. located at various areas of the world. basically all media/print/art are also destroyed.

all the people who survive happen to be atheists.

these people start to have children, but of course there's no need to bring up the subject of gods/God. the population starts to grow and spread again, and remembered technology starts to get restored.

with no reference point of having heard of god or religion, I wonder how long it would be, how many generations, before religions of some sort started to develope again?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 17 • Views: 5,312 • Replies: 91

 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:02 pm
@chai2,
One or two at most.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:24 pm
@spendius,
Yeah, AT MOST. Actually, it would probably after the first bad harvest, and some old busybody got to remembering who had been misbehaving at planting time.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:30 pm
@chai2,
Will the colonies have soccer teams that play against each other? In that case I give it as long as it takes them to play about three world championships.
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:45 pm
@chai2,
probably won't take long and someone (probably some old codger) will figure out that some will (willingly ? ) accept his rulings - bit of a threat will likely help - and there we are : a new "religion" - or whatever you call it , will bubble up .
what message are you bringing us ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 07:12 pm
wow, I guess I'm surprised at the answers.

I figured a dozen generations, at least.

Well, less for some, it would I think, depend on the education level of the initial survivors.

So you feel the children of the atheists could/would come up with that?

That being the case, it sounds like society needs religion.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 07:28 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
That being the case, it sounds like society needs religion.

No -- it just breeds it. Just as it breeds the common cold, but doesn't need it.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 07:35 pm
@Thomas,
perhaps we do need the common cold?

it's a way to make our bodies stronger?
By being able to overcome a cold, we can fight off worse.

anyway, expound on what you mean by breed it.....why do we?

with ancient man, I could see it as a way to explain things that go bump in the night.
but if a group of people were raised to look for the physical cause of that bump, wouldn't there be less fear of it, since it's known, and not need to develope a supernatural protector?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 07:40 pm
@chai2,
No -- common cold bacteria need the common cold. If our societies breed something, the reason needn't always be that it's good for us. We're not as important as we think we are; our interests aren't always dominant.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:03 pm
@chai2,
What society needs is someone upon which to blame for our failures.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:06 pm
@Thomas,
well, you're right there thomas, I erroneously stated we needed the cold virus.

however, as an incidental by product, it does make us stronger.

roger, you're correct in saying we need someone to blame.
who do atheists blame?
hamburgboy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:10 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
That being the case, it sounds like society needs religion.


imo "religion" is just the name for something that many people cannot explain to others or even themselves .
i'm certainly not religious in a descriptive way , but there are times - but perhaps not for everyone - when even i need "something" - call it comfort or whatever you want - i certainly can't describe it .

as i age , i am not becoming religious - i believe - but do appreciate "mental help" (perhaps someone willing to listen) from others more than when i was younger .

at times there may be someone who knows how to take advantage of such "frailty" in others and exploit it for some reason .

for me it's rather difficult to desribe "religion" .

perhaps a personal experience will help describe it .
terry was a good friend and co-worker of mine for about 50 years . he also was a "good" catholic but would NEVER impose or even advertise his belief .
we both retired when we were 55 , and he become a deacon in the catholic church .
unfortunately , his wife died about 5 years after he retired .
i heard that he had decided to become a priest in his early 60's .
when i saw him , i asked him about it .
"they make me do all the work of a priest , i don't see why i shouldn't be recognized as such " , he said with a big irish grin .
he did the pre-marriage counseling for "mixed couples" , readily baptized children born out-of-wedlock without any questioning .
so he did all he could to help people that asked for his help and comfort .
everyone just loved "father terry " - who still was just terry for me .
so what did he give to people : religion , help , advice ???
he was just there for anyone who needed him - no questions asked .
he died two years ago ... and i sometimes miss him ... we had many really good times together .

looking at my scribbling , i don't know if it makes sense - you try and figure it out , PLEASE .
hbg
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:11 pm
@roger,
No, a need for solace in face of the inexplicable ... a need for reassurance that there's really is some rhyme or reason for terrible & painful things that happen to mere mortals. When there isn't, really ....
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:20 pm
@chai2,
I believe that religion (in a rudimentary sense) originates as an attempt by the human brain to anthropomorphize unknowns. Given the situation you describe, the population would still be exposed to unknowns and unless they were strictly trained to adhere to scientific methodologies (methodological naturalism) new non-naturalistic "explanations" of things would quickly emerge.

I don't believe that religion is "necessary" for humans, but I believe it is natural unless specifically overridden by naturalistic disciplines.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:26 pm
@msolga,
I believe msolga has it, mankind appears to need "meaning" as in "why am I going through all this **** called life if it really doesn't "mean" anything."
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 09:25 pm
To me, "faith" describes a personal belief system, while "religion" describes an organized activity or community. They don't always go together. Many people have one without the other, so it is difficult for me to understand exactly what we are discussing.
mac11
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 09:38 pm
There's a great sci-fi book called Earth Abides (1949) which lays out this scenario. As I recall, within a generation or two there were kids imitating the patriarch's superstitions (knocking on wood and such). They had no idea why he did that, but it became a sort of ritual for them.
2PacksAday
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 02:36 am
Hope....."I'm sorry sir, but you have a cancer that we have no idea how to cure"...."Hmmm, my fellow man has failed me....but the sun gives life....please sun help me"...and what happends if the guy lives....he tells his friends....ta da da Ra....by noon that day, a new religion is born...again.

The promise of some great reward....streets paved with gold {how tacky can you get}....7 virgins.....the fields of Yalu....the hall of the slain....whatever it takes to get you to willingly go into battle...or fork over your cash...or tell/confess your darkest secrets....gets your children to listen to you...

"Don't tell lies little Johnny, or you will go straight to hell."
"What is hell like"
"Oh, it's terrible, the food is bland, the rent is outrageous, and they have no cable."
"Screw that, I'm going to heaven, where they have unlimited text messaging, and the Starbucks is free."

A pure logical/scientific based society would prob be dull as **** though.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 04:48 am
@chai2,
Assuming that the settlements keep their knowledge of how the real universe work I see no likelihood or need of going back to some supernatural theories of the workings of the universe.

Kind of like saying how long will it take for a people who understand atom theory to go back to trying to convert lead into gold by means of chemical reactions.

In fact in a sane society anyone who go toward the supernatural will rightfully be view as insane and in need of mental health treatments.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 08:10 am
@hamburgboy,
hamburgboy wrote:

imo "religion" is just the name for something that many people cannot explain to others or even themselves .


perhaps a personal experience will help describe it .....

"they make me do all the work of a priest , i don't see why i shouldn't be recognized as such " , he said with a big irish grin .
he did the pre-marriage counseling for "mixed couples" , readily baptized children born out-of-wedlock without any questioning .
so he did all he could to help people that asked for his help and comfort .
everyone just loved "father terry " - who still was just terry for me .
so what did he give to people : religion , help , advice ???
he was just there for anyone who needed him - no questions asked .
he died two years ago ... and i sometimes miss him ... we had many really good times together .

looking at my scribbling , i don't know if it makes sense - you try and figure it out , PLEASE .
hbg


hbg, your story makes a lot of sense to me.

first though, you're right, I don't really know what I mean when I say "religion"
Do I mean and organized group sharing (as much as individuals can share with each other) a concept of God? Yeah, that, because it's just been a tried and try method over the centuries.

Do I mean a group that has solidified, such as scientologists, alcoholics annonymous. There are other groups I can't think of the name of, since I just woke up? They acknowledge something called "god" for lack of a better term, come together for services (audits, meetings....essentially the same thing although it would be denied by AA) Scientology quickly became a religion because its founder directed toward that way. AA has become a religion, even though it's founder did ever think about it becoming such. It might not be called a religion yet, but it has all the trappings of it, so, to me, it is.

Does it mean things like yoga? which I've been practicing over the last few months, and have found great physical, emotional and mental growth. I don't consider it such, since there is nothing to worship, but there is a lot of focusing on something, leading one to focus on nothing and everything at the same time.
Confused? So am I, until I stop thinking about it, then it makes perfect sense.
Religion? Some would say yes.

Walking out in the woods, digging nature? Yes, no, maybe, huh?

Back to your friend.

Service was inate to him. He had to perform service, it was who he was. His becoming a priest enable him to perform his services that much better, as he was looked upon with a new respect. In any event, he sounds like a good man, and true friend.
 

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