How long would it take....

@mac11,

earth abides is in my audiobook library, hoping to get to listen to it soon it sounds quite good

0 Replies

@chai2,

chai--

Check out A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

chai--

Check out A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr.

yes of course, an excellent suggestion, you will learn how religionists called "Simpletons" will continue destroying civilization ad infinitum.

2 Replies

@dyslexia,

In burlap loincloths too.

Can you imagine civilisations not being destroyed from time to time dys?

0 Replies

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Anyway, expound on what you mean by breed it.....why do we?

Because we can -- it's that simple. To show why, perhaps I shouldn't have compared religion with the common cold. A better metaphor, invented by Richard Dawkins I think, is that religions are to human minds and souls what computer viruses are to computers.

Richard Dawkins wrote:

It is intriguing to wonder what it might feel like, from the inside, if one's mind were the victim of a ``virus.'' [...]

Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it. Accepting that a virus might be difficult to detect in your own mind, what tell-tale signs might you look out for? I shall answer by imaging how a medical textbook might describe the typical symptoms of a sufferer (arbitrarily assumed to be male).

1. The patient typically finds himself impelled by some deep, inner conviction that something is true, or right, or virtuous: a conviction that doesn't seem to owe anything to evidence or reason, but which, nevertheless, he feels as totally compelling and convincing. We doctors refer to such a belief as ``faith.''

2. Patients typically make a positive virtue of faith's being strong and unshakable, in spite of not being based upon evidence. Indeed, they may feel that the less evidence there is, the more virtuous the belief (see below).

This paradoxical idea that lack of evidence is a positive virtue where faith is concerned has something of the quality of a program that is self-sustaining, because it is self-referential (see the chapter ``On Viral Sentences and Self-Replicating Structures'' in Hofstadter, 1985). Once the proposition is believed, it automatically undermines opposition to itself. The ``lack of evidence is a virtue'' idea could be an admirable sidekick, ganging up with faith itself in a clique of mutually supportive viral programs.

3. A related symptom, which a faith-sufferer may also present, is the conviction that ``mystery,'' per se, is a good thing. It is not a virtue to solve mysteries. Rather we should enjoy them, even revel in their insolubility.

Full article (It's one of my favorites.)

Rephrasing your original question in terms of the mind-virus metaphor, it sounds like this: Assuming that all but a few hard disks in the world had been destroyed, and the remaining ones didn't have a computer virus on them, how long would it take until the first new computer virus emerged?

The obvious answer is: a very short time. Not because computers need viruses in any sense. Rather, they are vulnerable to them because of their versatility and the networks they're on. (It's no coincidence you've never heard of a pocket calculator virus.) And there will always be someone who takes advantage of that vulnerability.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

And if human society didn't contain people who took advantage of things where do you think we would be?

But mixing computers with minds as if they are in any way comparable is foolishness of the highest order.

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

Quote:

Re: spendius (Post 3707967)
spendius wrote:
chai--
Check out A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr.

yes of course, an excellent suggestion, you will learn how religionists called "Simpletons" will continue destroying civilization ad infinitum.

Um, this is FICTION, Dys. And yes, I've read this book, and very much enjoyed it.

Still, it's no more a predictor of our future than Star Wars.

Didn't Chai2 say in her initial post that Atheists were the only people left? In that case, wouldn't genetics and parental beliefs have some kind of influence on succeeding generations?

Maybe I'm too optimistic. I like to think (note the word "like") that people are more sensible than this thread would lead us to believe.

And yes, I'm an Atheist.

1 Reply

I believe in non fiction atheists.

1 Reply

@BorisKitten,

fiat lux

0 Replies

@shewolfnm,

Somewhere recently, not on a2k, I saw someone use the word 'non theist'. C'e moi, however you say that in french. Not sure that that covers it, as I'm also pretty much non-spiritual. I've always just explained laboriously that I am void of belief.. which of course has no charm at all.

I'm not Dawkins, never mind that he is brighter - I don't have his rage against religion (or, to Eva, personal belief), although I was pretty pissed off forty years ago. I consider it natural, nodding to Rosborne, and don't mean that in a condescending way, that's not my thinking. I do get extremely aggravated at excesses of religiosity, having once been a poster child for it.

And yes, 2packs, enjoyed the Ra sound.

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

On how long would it take, eh, two weeks in winter, a day in summer.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

Quote:

I do get extremely aggravated at excesses of religiosity, having once been a poster child for it.

You once had an "excess of religiosity?" Did I misunderstand here?

Oh, tell us!

My husband was, in his younger years, very religious, as were his parents. He even worked as a missionary.

He had a "revelation" when he was in his late 20's, where he figured out all this Jesus/God stuff was not, in fact, Real.

Me, I've never been a believer, despite my early Catholic-School education. And in Catholic School, I was severely punished for speaking the truth as I saw it.

I still recall standing in a corner for saying, "I don't think Jesus was real," in the first grade.

2 Replies

@BorisKitten,

I'd have to chase down multiple posts by me in the early days of a2k, and maybe of abuzz. What I remember is a2k. But I won't do that chasing.

It may take me a bit to work up a fairly short summary post, not looking at the old posts, in which I'll probably miss some nuances but make an effort to explain some transitions.

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

Nag me if I forget.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

Ehn, Osso, never mind your posts... certainly you remember your Beliefs many years ago?

I sure remember mine. I've had many people tell me when I "grew up" I'd come to believe in God.

This never did happen (I'm 47 now). I never did, and never will, believe in God/Jesus/Higher Powers. I can't help it.

I think it would be Great to think some "Guardian Angels" gave a flying **** about me, but all evidence points to the fact that not only do they NOT care about me, they do not, in fact, exist at all.

I often feel alone in my certainty, and envy those who think prayers/angels matter or are real. I've never been able to "go there," where gods/angels exist.

Still, wouldn't it be just great if I thought Guardian Angels existed, or God gave a damn about my prayers? I'd feel protected and cared for.

When I was 3 or 4, and prayed to God to Stop my father from raping/torturing me, I got NO response or help, at all. That was the end of my praying.

Anyone who'd like to deny this fact, Feel Free. I'm unlikely to respond.

1 Reply

@BorisKitten,

OK, that was a pathetic post, but the Truth all the way.

1 Reply

@BorisKitten,

good post. better than most posts, you had something to say and you said it.

0 Replies

Yes. Good post. Not pathetic at all. Very authentic.

I do not share your beliefs, but I have not lived your life. I would defend your right to believe whatever you think is correct.

0 Replies

Thank you SO much (Eva and Dys) for your replies.

Perhaps you can even understand my envy of those who are comforted by their beliefs.

I must say, also, that despite my disbelief in any "higher power," I try very hard to do the right thing in all my actions.

Why? Because it makes me happier. That's it; no other reason.

But it's reason enough.

0 Replies

Oh yes, I can understand the envy. I've felt that myself. My beliefs do not always comfort me. Often they challenge me instead. Honestly, I probably have more questions than answers. I'm still working things out in my mind. And like most people, I don't enjoy being attacked for my beliefs, so I don't discuss them much on A2K where such conversations often quickly become heated. Suffice to say I understand from personal experience why a lot of people reject the idea of God and/or the value of religion. I've been there myself.

But enough about me. I was really sorry to hear about all the pain your father caused you. Nobody should have to go through that at any age, much less at 3 or 4. (Want me to say a prayer that he'll pay for it? Evil or Very Mad

)

1 Reply

How long would it take....

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know