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A disgusting abuse of power by the British govt?

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 06:33 am
Let me preface this with the comment that I am only responding to the information as written in the following article, and I havent heard the govts side.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1198957/I-want-come-home-mummy-Aged-Jenny-torn-parents-social-workers-RSPCA-raid-Now-court-says-adopted-.html

Its a long article, but in a nutshell the British govt wants to force a couple to let their child be adopted.
The cops raided a home, made charges that have been dropped, removed a little girl, and now are forcing her to be adopted instead of allowing her to go home.

This seems like a travesty and to me it seems the govt is way out of line.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,977 • Replies: 13
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sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 06:57 am
I am sure there is another side to this story. The authorities can't speak about the case to the press, but the other side can. So we are getting this one side.

In the US, parents are required to go to parenting classes if the child has been removed from the home. There may be other requirements, too. We got custdy of my nephew because his mother did not stop drinking and get him his own bed to sleep in, clean the apartment, and get food into the house (yes, there was adequate money) She, herself, had a guardian because she can't handle her own affairs. Why would anyone think she could raise a child?

Three years the court tried to work with her. In the meantime, this child was in foster care (from 5 to 8 years old - important years!!) while the court tried to help the parent. She just did not want to do it. He is now 21, and there are still "scars" from all the chaos from his early years.

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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 07:09 am
There were 74 separate court hearings and now the Court of Appeal finally ruled.

Where is something in this that leads to "a disgusting abuse of power by the British govt"?

Are you really saying, MM, that in the UK the courts aren't independent?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 07:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm saying that based on the article, there was no reason to take the little girl away, and now they want to force the parents to let the child be adopted?

Based on the article, there is no reasonable cause to do that.

dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 07:13 am
Quote:
There are some parents who do not deserve to see their children more than once a month. Irresponsible parents. Neglectful parents. Abusive parents.

According to care workers, the mother and father of this little girl were found to fall into this category after their home was raided by the RSPCA and at least 18 police officers to deal with a complaint about supposed mistreatment of dogs.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 07:23 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I'm saying that based on the article, there was no reason to take the little girl away, and now they want to force the parents to let the child be adopted?

Based on the article, there is no reasonable cause to do that.




The had legal reasons (that's why and how social workers can work).
And these reasons were confirmed by the Court of Appeal.

Nevertheless: how is that abusive of the British government? (As a side note: the social workers acted according to English law.)

I mean, it has been through the courts.
And certainly there are legal ways to review it again.

But why in God's name do you question this as being an abuse by the UK's government?
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 09:30 am
@mysteryman,
http://www.fassit.co.uk/charles_pragnell_adoption.htm

MM
There are many cases like that in UK which one can see when reading Britsh papers. The rest of Europe is very suprised how matters are handled in UK. Above is link to the problems and youn could find many more. Especially there is a problem that parents often not heard, nor have any legal help.
One family lost three children all for wrong reasons. Now they could getb their children back after some years - in the meantime the poor kids have gotten used to their new families. What a dilemma.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 09:42 am
@saab,
If the rest of Europe really is very much surprised how such is handled in the UK - the rest of Europe doesn't know how such is handled in their own countries.

What happens in the UK (and some other countries) is that the worst/bad cases are published, mainly in the tabloid papers, without showing the legal background.

If society wants it differently - change the laws.
But always you'll have borderline cases, on both sides of the spectrum.
(Here, in Germany, we have since months the discussion why children aren't taken out of families.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 09:57 am
The daily Mail, the paper behind the quoted article, started in 2005 a campaign, called "Stolen by the State".
In this campaign, the Daily Mail (in 2005) 'endorsed' the until then nearly unknown group Families Anti Social Services Inquiry Team (Fassit).

Fassit nowadays seems to be very similar to Fathers4Justice.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 10:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
As far as know Germany has been rather fair in handling cases with chidren. Sweden some years ago or should I say decades did have the most chidren taken away from their families in comparesing with the rest bof western Europe. Foster parents could make lots of money taking in the children. If proven the children were difficult - which child would not be taken away from their envirement - the fosterparents could get up to 3000 DM per child. I think it was even taxfree or little taxes. But I am not sure.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 10:49 am
@saab,
'Fair' always depends from which side you look at it.

That we here have more foster and/or adopted children (nowadays) is mainly a cost factor (for politicians since foster families and adoptions are cheaper than residential care) and a different view for professionals (institutionalised care isn't as personal, 'real' family structures etc).

I sincerely doubt that foster parents could ever get up to 3,000 DM per child in Germany (as far as I remember, it has been about 400 to 700 DM in the 90's in our county - vs. 1,400 and more DM in homes).
Nowadays, it's - depending on the age of the child (and the region/county) - between about 400 and to 800 Euros.
ianjosephs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 02:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I was present at the Court of Appeal and so were the press so both sides WERE heard ! The points for the couple were that the police and rspca trashed the house letting in non house trained dogs and ripping the place apart searching for non existent guns and sick animals ! Secondly the official parent assessor and psychiatrist said they were model parents and that the local authority had mishandled the case
Points against were that the parents were furious to be hancuffed and put in jail where the wife suffered a miscarriage,and secondly that after 4 assessments differed the parents were reluctant to undergo a fifth one unless their daughter was returned first.
ON THIS LAST POINT THE JUDGE DECIDED TO GIVE THIS 7 YEAR OLD FOR ADOPTION EVEN THOUGH SHE KNOWS HER PARENT'S ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBERS AND CAN NEVER SETTLE WITH STRANGERS
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 02:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Things seem to have changed here - looked up what fosterparents get now. Around 8.500 Skr (850-900 Euro) for a normal 10 year old. Handicapped children is something else. Part of income is taxable - is discussed on goverment level as unfair.
Difficult to say how much more a Swedesh couple really get compared to a German as costs of living vary in the two countries.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 02:47 pm
@ianjosephs,
ianjosephs wrote:

I was present at the Court of Appeal and so were the press so both sides WERE heard ! The points for the couple were that the police and rspca trashed the house letting in non house trained dogs and ripping the place apart searching for non existent guns and sick animals ! Secondly the official parent assessor and psychiatrist said they were model parents and that the local authority had mishandled the case
Points against were that the parents were furious to be hancuffed and put in jail where the wife suffered a miscarriage,and secondly that after 4 assessments differed the parents were reluctant to undergo a fifth one unless their daughter was returned first.
ON THIS LAST POINT THE JUDGE DECIDED TO GIVE THIS 7 YEAR OLD FOR ADOPTION EVEN THOUGH SHE KNOWS HER PARENT'S ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBERS AND CAN NEVER SETTLE WITH STRANGERS


Lord Justice Thorpe, Lord Justice Longmore and Mr Justice Bodey held that any improvement in the parents' insight into their own attitudes was "too little and too late" to give them the chance of trying to overturn an adoption placement order.

The 32-year-old father and his wife, 43, were refused permission to appeal against orders granted to East Sussex County Council by a judge at Brighton County Court.

Mr Justice Bodey, giving the court's judgment, said that, "sadly for the parents", there were no grounds for challenging the county court judge's finding that the girl was at risk of psychological harm.
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