The State of America's Special Relationship with Britain

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http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGY4MDk4YjVhZTc4YWEyZWJlODYyY2U2M2VhNjM0Mjc=

Why do you suppose PM Gordon Brown (and by logical extension, the nation he leads) was treated so shabbily by our new president?

Because he once said some nice things about George Bush?

Because he's recommending global economic controls and Obama is a big believer in American Exceptionalism after all?

Because the UK is the icon of Western colonialism that did so much to harm indigenous peoples across the globe?

What do our British friends feel about the obviously intentional snub?

What is the future of the Special Relationship which, I believe, has now been renamed the Special Partnership by the Obama Administration.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 3,671 • Replies: 26

[+3] - Finn dAbuzz - 03/23/2009I don't necessarily doubt that, in general, Brits don't put much stock in the Special Relationship, but if that's truly the case, I have to wonder why it is so. Too much time has passed for any...

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGY4MDk4YjVhZTc4YWEyZWJlODYyY2U2M2VhNjM0Mjc=

Why do you suppose PM Gordon Brown (and by logical extension, the nation he leads) was treated so shabbily by our new president?

Because he once said some nice things about George Bush?

Because he's recommending global economic controls and Obama is a big believer in American Exceptionalism after all?

Because the UK is the icon of Western colonialism that did so much to harm indigenous peoples across the globe?

What do our British friends feel about the obviously intentional snub?

What is the future of the Special Relationship which, I believe, has now been renamed the Special Partnership by the Obama Administration.

Answer to all the questions:

There was no real shoddy treatment at all, this is a big 'nothing burger' created by right-wingers who are angry they lost the election, and that you morons need to find something real to complain about.

Enjoying life in the minority these days, Finn?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Another classic, childish response from Cyclo.

Created by right-wingers who voted for McCain?

Quote:

http://blogs.thetimes.co.za/minor/2009/03/03/obama-snubs-brown/

Quote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5837571.ece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/03/gordon-brown-barack-obama

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/03/AR2009030303660.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I didnt detect Brown was treated shabbily. I thought he made a good speech and it was received by 19 standing ovations. (Is that unusual or do both Houses need to get some excercise?)

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

They have right-wingers in Britain as well, Finny ol chap Laughing

From your first link -

Quote:

Brown was accorded the rare honour of being invited to address a joint session of Congress tomorrow.

From your second link -

Quote:

British officials, denying any deliberate snub, said that a slightly more formal event planned in the Rose Garden after the meeting had been cancelled because the grounds of the White House are blanketed in snow.

From your third link -

Quote:

However, Obama's team pointed out that the busy president did not hold a press conference after meeting the Japanese prime minister, Taro Aso, last week.

Like I said - a whole bunch of nothing, that the dead-enders on your side are trying to blow up into a big incident. Look to thine own eye before making accusations of childish behavior, Finn...

You didn't answer my question: how'z life in the minority? Having fun?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Steve 41oo,

Certainly one could say that the members of both houses need to get off their dead asses, but i don't that this sort of thing really qualifies as exercise. I think the two houses are likely to be over-effusive in their response to those who address them, but still i think it could be said that they received Brown well.

1 Reply

I think the interaction was just fine. Not overly friendly (and fake), not rude (and inappropriate).

Based on his speech, I think it was a good visit. This is business not a block party. It would have been disgusting to see to two acting as if they've been friends for decades. They just met for the first time, right? Certainly in this capacity.

I'm sure in the coming years we'll have plenty of photo ops with smiling men in front of flags. I see no point in being totally superficial.

T
K
O

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Maybe Gordon Brown was disappointed because what he really wanted was a nice presidential neck-and-shoulder rub:

http://fruitfly.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/bush_groping_merkel.jpg

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@Setanta,

I think Brown made some very serious points...about regulation of the financial service industry and the need to avoid protectionism. Back in the UK he had been pinning the blame for the financial crisis affecting Britain firmly on US sub prime lending. But there was little or no blame allocation in his speech, just a great deal of tummy tickling which Congress enjoyed immensely...

After that idiot Bush (see above) it really is good to think America might give the leadership Europe and the rest of the world is crying out for, but I fear even Obama may be overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.

1 Reply

Quote:

And then there was the fiasco of the ham-handed White House reception for British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, which was evidently lacking the most basic elements of ceremony and protocol. Don't they read the "Iliad" anymore in the Ivy League? Check that out for the all-important ritual of gift giving, which has cemented alliances around the world for 5,000 years.

Camille Paglia-Salon

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/03/11/mercury/index.html

Although Paglia lays the blame at the feet of his staff, at least she's one liberal who isn't allowing her support of Obama to warp her sense of reality.

The rest of the first page of the linked article is well worth reading too.

1 Reply

@Steve 41oo,

Quote:

After that idiot Bush (see above) it really is good to think America might give the leadership Europe and the rest of the world is crying out for, but I fear even Obama may be overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.

This is something about which i am apprehensive. There is only so much that can be done for international finance in the way of leadership, especially in a capitalist system which wants nothing to do with government and government policy unless and until they have fouled their own nest. The expectations of Mr. Obama my be too high. The United States is often an economic "engine" in that it is the largest consumer economy, so that when Americans buy, the rest of the world has a lucractive market in which to sell. I think that the developed nations must coordinate their efforts, but if don't think it is realistic to expect that Mr. Obama can pull everyone out of the hole they're in.

As for the subprime mortgage fiasco, a great many financial institutions in the world outside the Unites States jumped on the investment bandwagon when those shaky securities looked like making money, so i have little sympathy with laying all the blame at the feet of the creeps who run U.S. banks, though certainly i have an irrational urge to see the all lined up against a wall and shot. Wise banking investments were possible, and the banks in Canada are an example. They're not in trouble, and they have not suffered massive losses because they have continued to follow a basically conservative investment policy. Even so, when puny third and fourth quarter earnings were reported, CEOs and board members of Canadian banks voluntarily took a pay cut. One of the best things which could come out of this would be some sanity in financial firms.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

How many threads are you going to post this on, Finn?

lame

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Setanta,

I think the following is a brilliant summation of the mess those respected and well rewarded pillars of capitalism have got us into..The New Capitalism by Robert Peston

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/16_12_09_new_capitalism1.pdf

1 Reply

The dumbest thing done by a president in living memory

Rick Moran

You may recall that President Obama committed a diplomatic faux pas by giving British Prime Minister Gordon Brown a box set of 25 American movie DVD's after Brown's gracious gifts that included a wood carving from a ship that helped end the slave trade.

But that is not the end of the Obama administration's stupidity - not by a long shot. Apparently, Mr. Brown had popped some popcorn and sat down in front of the TV to watch one of his favorite movies when, to his horror, he discovered the depths of the administration's amateurishness:

Alas, when the PM settled down to begin watching them the other night, he found there was a problem.

The films only worked in DVD players made in North America and the words “wrong region” came up on his screen. Although he mournfully had to put the popcorn away, he is unlikely to jeopardise the special relationship " or “special partnership”, as we are now supposed to call it " by registering a complaint…

A White House spokesman sniggered when I put the story to him and he was still looking into the matter when my deadline came last night.

I don't think any "Keystone Cops" movies were included in Obama's "present, but the metaphor for this kind of stupidity is apt.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

What's your beef Finn? It's certainly a mistake, and actually pretty funny. England gave us Monty Python, I think they can have a sense of humor about this.

The idea that this could even be the "dumbest thing done by a president in living memory" speak less of the error and more about the writer's memory.

No greater mountain has been made from a molehill such as this. But I guess since you think this is such a high offense we should be prepared for the English to close their embassy in Washington and all other American diplomatic outposts then blow the war horns.

T
K
O

2 Replies

@Diest TKO,

Says even more about the poster who repeats it.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Steve 41oo,

Thanks for that article, Steve.

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@Diest TKO,

Obviously it was a mistake.

It's also obvious that Obama doesn't think very highly of the "special relationship" between the US and the UK.

Compare and contrast the thought and care that went into Brown's selection of gifts for the Obama's and the our president's clear indifference in the reciprocal effort.

In the arena of High Diplomacy, such indifference is tantamount to insult.

There are people who are employed by the White House to make sure protocol is honored.

This gift debacle suggests one of a few things

1) Obama's staff is utterly incompetent
2) Obama doesn't care enough about our relations with the UK to even show interest in protocol
3) Obama was deliberately sending a message to the UK

I would expect nothing less from Obama supporters than blithe dismissal of the matter as perhaps a humorous mistake, but certainly "no big deal."

While I am actually surprised by said supporters loss of the ability to perceive the ironic, the irony is clear and obvious for anyone with clear vision to see.

Whatever the reason for the snub, we should know what it is. It's an insult to our national intelligence to assert that it is meaningless --- nations have gone to war for such diplomatic "mistakes," and if the Administration is going to make such a big deal out of "restoring" diplomacy to our foreign policy arsenal, we should at least expect it to understand all of its intricacies.

But hey, if you insist on giving this Administration a pass on incompetence or are willing to mistake design for simple error, so be it. Not really a surprise.

3 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

While I am actually surprised by said supporters loss of the ability to perceive the ironic, the irony is clear and obvious for anyone with clear vision to see.

Maybe, but - who explained it to you, Mr. Galt? Laughing

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

nations have gone to war for such diplomatic "mistakes"

I'm sure you'll be able to tell your grandchildren about your heroic exploits during the "Great DVD War of 2010."

0 Replies

The State of America's Special Relationship with Britain

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