What is causing anti-intellectualism in the US?

@Butrflynet,

So is this thread about how to fake your homework now?

I thought it was about intellectualism, which I associate with depth of scholarship. I think the internet makes it easier to skim and feel you know a subject more in depth than you actually do.

But again, blame it on god if you want, that's certainly your right.

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@aidan,

As i have said, you don't know anything about me. I started reading history when i was seven years old, and whether the subject was history, or some other subject, i was well enough read when i was in elementary and high school to have only needed to get the books at the library for the publishing information, and then write my paper. I had already read them.

If you think teachers are so stupid that they don't know that students have not done their own work, whether they got the information from an encyclopedia or from the world wide web, than you must consider formal education a waste of time Miss Intellectual (if you actually are a "Miss," which is, of course, a matter for speculation). I didn't make nasty personal reflections on you, you started that. But i'm more than happy to play that game, if that's what you want.

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@Setanta,

I'm not playing any game. I know that most teachers know when a kid has copied or cut and pasted an article. I don't know what kids used to do when I was a student, I only paid attention to and know what I did- and my friends - but most of my friends were pretty good students - so they really read the books too.

Setanta - settle down. I think you're much more of an intellectual than I am. Yes, I'm impressed with your knowledge of history and know you can blow me out of the water with it.

But I also do know how modern students do use the internet to research, and I do know that it has encouraged (in those who would be lazy- certainly not in everyone) a tendency to skim and believe that one is vastly more informed than one really is.
I do it myself on certain issues.

Reread my first post. I acknowledge there are still a lot of really, really bright people - certainly no fewer than ever before. I just think scholarship is done differently.

I AM a miss- lady-woman-female- whatever. Ask Joe Nation.

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@ebrown p,

I do too, but I didn't know people drink it till I went to the States for the first time...

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@aidan,

My thesis is that the internet has not changed very much in terms of "intellectualism" or "scholarship" except the amount of time it takes to do things.

Can you show how anything has qualitatively changed?

Good students can do good work using the internet... the same as good students did before the internet. Bad students faked their homework long before the internet came.

People have skimmed books (or watched TV shows or read newspapers) and felt they understood a subject more in depth then they actually did long before the internet.

You seem to be claiming that that the internet changes something other than the amount of time it takes to engage in shoddy scholarship-- but you haven't provided any evidence to support this.

I don't see any evidence that the internet is having any negative effect on "intellectualism".

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@ebrown p,

Okay - I guess I failed to convince you.
Sorry about that.
No, I haven't done any qualitative or quantitative studies. I haven't even googled it.
I just know what I've observed and what it's led me to believe.
It's more than fine with me if you believe otherwise.
But that won't change what I've observed and what I believe - because I said what I've observed and believe to be true.
You're welcome to do the same thing (as far as I'm concerned).

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

My thesis is that the internet has not changed very much in terms of "intellectualism" or "scholarship" except the amount of time it takes to do things.

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@rosborne979,

Ros, perhaps you need to define intellectualism. I have been trying to find info on the abstract that I found in the stacks at UVA. "There is a negative correlation between creativity and intelligence." No luck.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

Okay - I guess I failed to convince you.
Sorry about that.
No, I haven't done any qualitative or quantitative studies. I haven't even googled it.
I just know what I've observed and what it's led me to believe.
It's more than fine with me if you believe otherwise.
But that won't change what I've observed and what I believe - because I said what I've observed and believe to be true.
You're welcome to do the same thing (as far as I'm concerned).

In other words, you've done exactly what you opine is causing the anti-intellectualism era. You didn't do any research or study the research of others, you just briefly looked around the neighborhood and used what you skimmed from the observation to form your thesis about society as a whole. Since you didn't google it, we can't blame that on the availability of the internet, can we?

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@Letty,

Some people would like it to be true but evidence is on the contrary:

Quote:

This means that, in a general sample, there will be a positive correlation between creativity and intelligence, but this correlation will not be found if only a sample of the most highly intelligent people are assessed. Research into the threshold hypothesis, however, has produced mixed results ranging from enthusiastic support to refutation and rejection.

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okay so if it's not the internet or too much tv or bad coffee

could it just be good old fashioned stupidity

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@Butrflynet,

butterfly net said:

Quote:

In other words, you've done exactly what you opine is causing the anti-intellectualism era. You didn't do any research or study the research of others, you just briefly looked around the neighborhood and used what you skimmed from the observation to form your thesis about society as a whole. Since you didn't google it, we can't blame that on the availability of the internet, can we?

No, not really. I went to school for eighteen years and did research one way and then I worked as a teacher for twenty years and saw it slowly change from being done one way to another, and in fact, I've noticed a change in how I do my own research now that I have access to the internet, and I made an informed comparison.

I did not and never have said that there is a difference in the level of intellectualism- if you read my first post- I said that there is the potential for use of the internet and the way research is conducted by MANY (not all) people who use it to contribute to what might be considered a trend toward shallow or surface scholarship and anti-intellectualism.

I also said the internet, if used correctly, could be a magnificent tool supporting intellectualism.

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I was talking to my brother about something similar the other day --

I noted that my Canadian friend knew more about American history and politics than 90% of Americans I come across. J, who has travelled all over the world pointed out that you could go to some backwater town in Kazakistan, where most of the population was illiterate and every morning the men would meet for coffee and the one guy who could read would read the entire newspaper to the others. These guys knew more about American history and politics than most Americans!

I think anti-intellectualism is really just a lack of curiosity about the rest of the world.

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@boomerang,

Please cut it out with the "Stupid American" thing! It is insulting and unsupportable.

This is just like an Urban Legend... that the fact that everyone "knows" it is "true" means that there is plenty of supporting evidence.

Americans go through American high school and college. Americans live in a specifically American-focused media environment. The idea that someone who didn't live embedded in American culture would know more about "American history and politics" is just another version of the stupid-American joke based on the meme that Americans are dull and ignorant.

I have heard that more Canadians know who the American President is than Americans know who the Canadian Prime Minister is-- but this is explainable (with out the stupid American meme)... the American President is simply more important in world news. Ask Americans and Canadians about the rule in Dubai, and you will get the same result.

I also have traveled-- and surprise... people are people. Some are interested in world events, some are worried about local events... some are working hard to just get by.

Americans are no stupider, duller or less curious than Canadians (although I find Canadians quite curious at times).

(And the beer stinks!)

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@ebrown p,

Wow. I had no idea I was on an ""Stupid American" thing!"

I must be really stupid.

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@boomerang,

No stupider than anyone else.

That's the point.

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@aidan,

Quote:

Setanta - settle down.

Listen, sister . . . i'm not the one who got nasty here--that was you. I simply had the temerity to disagree with your thesis. Believe it or not, that is neither evidence of anger on my part, nor is it a personal reflection on you.

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@ebrown p,

Quote:

Anti-Intellectualism in the US is a myth (at least as compared to other countries).

I dunno. I think it's pretty clear that there is a school of thought, amongst some Americans, that learning and education makes one less prepared to deal with or make decisions in one's life, and for our society as a whole. While this may be true for other countries as well, I know it's true here...

I think the phrase 'ivory-tower' comes to mind. A convenient way to pretend that those with more education are not better qualified to discuss certain subjects. And I can't help but think, it mostly comes from one direction: uneducated Conservatives, who are unhappy when reminded that others exceeded their level of ability.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I think it's pretty clear that there is a school of thought, amongst some Americans, that learning and education makes one less prepared to deal with or make decisions in one's life, and for our society as a whole. While this may be true for other countries as well, I know it's true here...

That is an interesting point. This is very clear in recent political campaigns.

I don't have a clue about how this type of argument plays in other countries... I would be interested to find out.

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@ebrown p,

People in their own EU country know more about USA and its presidents than they know about the rest of EU countries. That is simple, they hear more about USA than EU.
This leads to ignorance. Once I asked around about how many countries there are in Europe - one person knew. There are even people who don´t know how many countries in EU. Can you imagen asking Americans and only one would know how many states there are in USA.
These questions have nothing to do with intellectialism but lack of being curious.
They are simply not one bit interested in Europe except for the places they like to travel to. They still know about books and theatre or music or other things or whatever their interests are.

1 Reply

What is causing anti-intellectualism in the US?

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