You raised me this way, now why are you surprised?

offtopic... Diest - my exhub and I worked for a CFD company Concentration Heat and Momentum Ltd (PHOENICS) and he now works at Flomerics (taken over by Mentor Graphics) Flovent and Flotherm. He's a major big boffin... troubleshooter product manager. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh FLUENT.... tsk tsk

Ogionik said:


I live in a small village outside a small city (the smallest city in England, by the way - it's only called a city because it has a cathedral, and in England if there's a cathedral the place is classified as a city). I'm trying to think of what you might compare it to in the United States - on the east coast, it'd be comparable to a smallish to mid-size town- not so small that everyone knows each other- but not so big that you'd get lost in the crowd.

You know - in terms of poorer people being ruder - I have to disagree. I think there's a difference in lack of what might be deemed culturally appropriate manners that someone just hasn't been taught or had the opportunity to be exposed to and out and out rudeness which is indulged in despite having been taught what are deemed culturally appropriate manners and having made the decision to act otherwise toward someone.
And I think that sometimes money imbues people with arrogance which translates to rudeness toward others whom they deem not worthy of their time or attention.
Like ignoring someone- I don't think you can get much ruder than that- and that seems to be something people on this site right here have decided to do and I don't think that decision is correlated to anyone's income. It's just a sort of arrogance expressed as rudeness.

In general, I think more people in England act politely than is the case in the US, BUT I have also noticed that the polite people in the US are REALLY, really polite and quite openly lovely, while the British people who are polite are slightly less expressive in their politeness and so might at first seem a little less friendly and more reserved. Some Americans might find this rude or cold at first, but it really isn't that at all.

But I do think you have a point about poor children and teens being more violent. When someone's raised with violence, they may have learned no other viable way of expressing or protecting themselves. Sadly, I think violence is a way of life for a lot of kids. And they've learned they need to be ready to strike back. It's a real dog eat dog world that a lot of kids live in. But one thing I've noticed is that when they have the chance to relax and not worry about portraying a tough and hardened exterior with someone - they're very grateful and happy to be able to do that. And I have seen them visibly relax when they realize they don't have to be on guard with someone and project an image that says, 'Don't mess with me...'

Spendius wrote:


I do not - that's the first time that ever happened to me here. Most of the time people are really into the whole American thing- these two were like Frik and Frak - the one in the car who can't say anything to me, but she tattles on me to her friend who then starts bossing me around and scolding me like I was some little kid.
And I didn't even leave a mark. What did she want me to do - give her my insurance details because I did something that COULD have left a mark? I just didn't get it- there was no problem...

But some people enjoy that role, ' Oh you did something that I can scold you for and now I'm gonna make you pay'.
Actually a lot of teachers are like that and I think that's why they become teachers - they always want to be in that role where they can be in charge..and they have to take their misplaced insecurities out on the only people they can lord it over - kids.
Fortunately - a lot of teachers just love kids - and that's why they're where they are.
I've met both kinds.

In this situation, no one was armed (unless she was carrying concealed). I had a couple of books in my hand, but I wouldn't have hit her with them - I wouldn't even have thrown them at her-I love books too much to use them as weapons and anyway I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of calling me a 'violent American' or a 'hotheaded American'. I was just sort of perplexed by the whole thing. And I'm proud to say that she hasn't changed my views on Brits at all - still love you guys - I'd never generalize her behavior to a whole nation of people.

Funny that Jane sees being called a Christian as an insult. The other day these two ladies came in and they were having tea - it was about five- and we started talking about art and then one asked me if I went to church and I said, 'Sometimes' and she said, 'I knew it when I walked through the door- it felt so peaceful and calm and serene in here and I just got this vibe from you and I thought to myself - this woman is a Christian...'
I took that as a huge compliment.

So as Ogionik said, everyone's different.

That reads as if only selfish considerations prevented you from whacking her a couple with your books.

Yeah - maybe in this situation that was true- I was thinking of what I DIDN'T want to give her instead of what I did.
But I don't really hit people as a general rule (although I certainly have when I've gotten to the end of my rope - but never a stranger).
I hit Justin the other day because he pissed me off - I said, 'Cut it OUT' and as I said OUT I punched him in the shoulder.
He's like, 'Jesus- what was that for...?'
And I said, 'One of these days you're gonna think back to how nice I am to you and feel really sorry that you don't take me seriously..'
(he'd sent this hamburger out rare and I told him this lady wouldn't like it like that (most women don't like rare meat even though a lot of men do) and when she sent it back he started imitating my American accent in this whining tone- like 'Oh my gahd...what a disAster....' and I was trying to get him to cook it some more and take me seriously so I hit him- sometimes he makes jokes when there's no time to joke.

We both ended up laughing but he later said, 'Rebecca - I'm an Englishman- we don't hit...'
But even though I'm an American, usually hitting isn't my first instinct or inclination. I'm more of a thrower - I do pick up dishes and stuff and throw them on the floor when I get really frustrated. I think I just like to hear the CRASH and feel that I got my point across without actually hurting anyone.
(I am kind of a hotheaded American - but I don't think it has anything with being an American - I think I'd be hotheaded no matter what my nationality).

But I do always try to use manners.

i think its so sexy when women throw things..


i do not know why.

But not very hard by the sound of it.

A pot thrower eh? Have you ever done it with grub on them?

I saw some stuff about Aztecs in a Sky Art programme last night. It said that the warriors were posher than the reapers but not as posh as the priests and that their function was to capture outsiders for the purpose of human sacrifice to placate the Sun god. The more the better. 40,000 in one festival lasting three days. The skulls were piled up in serried ranks for display.

i never did get that massive sacrifice ****, thats prolly why some those civilizations down there just dissappeared.

they fuckin killed everyone. and everyone prolly fled the area.

According to the programme it is connected to the fact that humans are the only creature which is conscious of its ultimate demise. Hence religion.

i think religion started by people makin **** up to control other people, and then eventually the people who didnt "believe" were culled.

sort of like dogs.

only the submissive ones turned into dogs. only the ones who accept humans as their masters..only the weakest, the ones scavenging for food from our waste instead of hunting it on their own.

iMO seems likely, i mean really, whoever said no got murdered.
only the say yessers survive and reproduce.

what do you all think?

It can be argued from that that atheists actually are monkeys. Why they have a modicum of manners is inexplicable. As is how they could have developed science. They take advantage of the fact that we have science.

It sounds, OGI, that you are using words to deny having submitted.

What exactly would you like to do that you feel religion is preventing you from doing?

i dont use religion in any of my calculations in life.

thats like using snow white and the seven dwarfs as a guideline for like.

i dont dabble in ficiton to much. *cough* religion *cough*

Ogionik said:


I think it's because it just represents this giant release - it's sort of like this physical manifestation of an eruption of feeling that can't be controlled- men get to have those all the time (hee-hee).

You know the first time I did it - I felt ashamed - loss of control and all that but then I realized it's freaking therapeutic...even when I'm the one picking up the pieces and mopping up the mess - I figure it's worth it...I can't describe how good it feels.

Spendius - I don't have to try hard to use manners - that comes pretty naturally- that's why losing it feels like a vacation sometimes.

And I've never thrown pots with grub in them, but I have thrown a cup of tea - I had tea stains on my ceiling for a while - and I was looking at it thinking, 'what's that stuff on the ceiling' and then I remembered the time I threw the tea. It can't be in pots - it has to be in something that can break - the sound is part of the experience.

I never throw stuff at anyone though - just at the floor - tile is best. And it only happens about three times a year. But as I said- a cup here, a plate there- it's so worth it.

I met a guy once who played in the backing band for Dusty Springfield and he told me that she had to throw some pots at the wall to get up for going on. Her manager bought rejects from a pottery firm in crates.

OGI is probably thinking that it shows impulsiveness and a collapse of social etiquette which might reveal a general characteristic in moments of high excitement (hee-hee!).

Can you pick your nose in a restaurant and scrape the bogie off on a table leg. Watch out for underneath the seats in second-hand motors.

I remember my dear mother throwing a cup-of-tea at my father. She got most of it on the ceiling too. It's catching your finger in the handle that does it.

But three times a year is a bit excessive. It sounds cyclical. Astrological even.

Yeah - well I am an ARIES...fire sign you know,

No, I would NEVER pick my nose in a restaurant although I did have a very GOOD friend who asked, 'If noses weren't meant to be picked, why are index (forefingers to you Brits I think) EXACTLY the right size to fit inside nostrils?

And I had to admit that I had no answer (to that particular question).
I think picking your nose is akin to pooping and other unfortunately disagreeable acts that are never-the-less necessary, and best done in private.

Three times a year to feel absolutely FREE - excessive?! No - I have to disagree with that quantitative assessment...

Sometimes I even eat two packs of crisps a DAY! Is that excessive - given that I'm not overweight or suffering from high cholesterol?
I think not - it's all relative I think.

That is evasion of responsibilty. It suggests we should incarcerate all ARIES on the grounds that they can't help it.

I think you got rewards for throwing your toys out of the pram.

Oh no - not in my family Spendius- there were six of us kids and I was third - smack dab in the middle

Picture this -
big brother - 9 years old
big sister-six years old
me- four years old
little sister - three years old
other little sister - two
littlest brother - 9 months

Now do you think for one moment that there was ANY chance at all that I'd be spoiled? My mother had another baby right after I learned to walk and before I could talk. I was changing my little brother's diaper when I was five years old.

I was cooking supper for eight by the time I was ten.

Besides - my dad was a no nonsense sort of guy - you wouldn't get away with throwing anything around him. Maybe that's why I throw stuff now.

aidan said:


which reminds me - guess what I made today? YORKSHIRE pudding! I made them from scratch and they came out awesome! I read this recipe in last week's TIMES- where they said that a proper yorkshire pudding needed to rise four inches - and I was inspired to try my hand at it because all the frozen one's I've had at various sunday roasts were just sort of rubbery and horrible and I didn't like them, although I usually do like bread and pastry- so I knew if they were done right (homemade) I probably would like them a lot- so I took my time and let the batter set overnight (like a northern England guy told me to). I made sure the oil was SMOKING hot before I poured the batter in the cups and it worked. They were awesome.
(Figured I should talk some more about myself and even brag a little- as I know that's what's expected of me).

But seriously, you should come down one Sunday for one of my roasts - or maybe you'd like to show up Thursday for Thanksgiving...
Bring clary - we could do uncensored acronyms at the Bath Arms- Justin could join us - believe me - it'd be pretty fun...

You know - this is the time of year when friends should meet - it makes me miss Mathos...what do you think he's up to?