17
   

You raised me this way, now why are you surprised?

 
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:46 pm
@ossobuco,
It was a city college. I won't make that mistake again but I chose it because it was the closest to work (with a 60+ hour work week time was a big deal to me).

A University would have been a much better pick to avoid rules like that, but I'd have had to drive across San Diego and the commute just didn't fit the schedule.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:47 pm
@ossobuco,
Yes, but now if you miss school - the teacher has to pull together a special package for you with all the school work. I understand when I was younger if I missed school, I'd just hop back in and gather up whatever I missed.

School is much different now - if you miss a few days, you miss a lot - and it really puts the teachers out. To me it is much more work to try to make up the school work and tests - the added stress to a child is not worth it.

We also put school as a high priority - as much to teach some respect for others and teach committment.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:47 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I actually think that WAS worth making a fuss over. I'm not saying you should have, or anything....but as a general point I think that flamingly obviously unacceptable.

I am quite shocked that such an attitude should obtain in a centre of learning for ADULTS, and that teachers were able to make up policy in such a benighted manner.

I accept that in some subjects, where one must learn specialist practical skills, that attendance must be mandatory....but to cut you out of attaining that course because you had work requirements and could demonstrate perfectly good attainment of the course objectives seems to me simply insane.

My lecturer/tutor friends fall over themselves to expedite access to their working students, and I think that is a pretty general policy.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:49 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Now that teacher is showing his own sort of entitlement.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:51 pm
@ossobuco,
I attended a class at a community or city college - these are simply extensions of high school - that is why they teach you like children - many who attend are just continuing high school.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:58 pm
@Linkat,
I do hear that some classes in CCs are reasonably good, and I suppose that any one class can beat out one at some other type of school on occasion.

I still beg to differ -- you insist on your priority about education, as if anyone who took off from school or whose parents let them take off, doesn't have that priority. Hardly anyone has taken more classes than I have, something like 70, post university. I'm still glad I got those days off with my parents.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 05:04 pm
@Linkat,
Hmmm...we have adult re-entry high schools here (but apparently only in my state) that treat people like ADULTS.

They work really well, as a rule.

A lot of my friends went from them to university.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 05:22 pm
@ossobuco,
One more comment and I'll be quiet, as we obviously have differing views.

I think some of the rigidity of educational systems is a missed priority. I see nothing on earth wrong with taking a random week off, once a year, in grammar school. So what if you flunked that week by missing a test when you were nine?

JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 05:41 pm
@ossobuco,
That reminds me of the conversation I had with my mother when the girls were 5 and 7 (kindergarten and 2nd grade). She was encouraging me to pull them out for a vacation opportunity we had. I was SHOCKED to hear that coming from her because she would have never considered pulling us out of school. I challenged her change of heart and she said, "I'm smarter now."
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 05:58 pm
I beg your pardon folks. I'm sorry for interrupting back there. I thought the thread was about modern education and the well being of those we are passing our debts on to.

I hadn't realised it was about showing off.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 06:58 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

My children were raised during the period described in the article, but they didn't turn out with the "me" focus. I must have goofed.

BBB


Yeah, I was too. I disagree with the time-frames they've given. Our teachers certainly didn't treat us that way. In the 80's is when I noticed it more. One of my colleagues had a son whose homework was never corrected because they feared it would destroy his self-esteem. Sheesh. Now the kid is 28 and can't spell to save his life.

I think there's a lot more attention and focus on kids than is good for them. I believe they're part of the family, not what the family revolves around.


I was about to say the same thing before reading your response. I finished highschool in the early 70s. We never had any of that treatment in school. It was still the dog eat dog competition with the Jones to be the best and most successful and you never dared fail because of what the neighbors might think.

It was probably that mentality that converted into the mindset of the 80's and 90's where no one is a failure if they at least tried.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 07:22 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

That reminds me of the conversation I had with my mother when the girls were 5 and 7 (kindergarten and 2nd grade). She was encouraging me to pull them out for a vacation opportunity we had. I was SHOCKED to hear that coming from her because she would have never considered pulling us out of school. I challenged her change of heart and she said, "I'm smarter now."



I'm with the new, smarter JPB mum.

I also advocate (where parents can manage it) that each kid gets a kid and parent day a term. Just to hang out and spend special time together.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:24 pm
Nick, here's an important lesson in life....

You never know when something you find meaningless at the time becomes very, or even vitally important later on.

Everything in life has a lesson. Even if it your behavior teaching others what NOT to do.

Going somewhere, sitting through something you find boring, or beneath you, if nothing else, teaches you patience.

At 24, patience may not mean a lot to some, but it will later on.

I could be wrong, but based on what you've written it seems you have little practice with putting yourself in the other persons shoes.


Edit: Just a for instance, I went back and looked at your profile, which I'd read once before. At that time, I thought something seemed off, but really didn't give it any further thought.

Going back, now I can immediately see what it is...keeping in mind that it is "your" profile, I find it, how shall I say this....self centered? In that there are only 4 words in your entire profile about anyone else.

One word "married" to tell us anything about who you are beyond biking, snowboarding and programming, and 3 words "along with Robert" to indicate he was involved in one of your passions, programming.

Don't get me wrong, I don't find it that unusual for a 24 year old male to do that. Not in this day and age, which is Mame's point. (I think)
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:37 pm
@JPB,
Actually, JPB, I was thinking of you in part in some of that.. didn't your girls help you folks down in New Orleans? It may not have been during school time, probably wasn't, but that would be something I'd understand if it was.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:49 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
In that there are only 4 words in your entire profile about anyone else.


See Nick? You should have written an essay about George Washington! Because that is the proper way to write your profile you self-centered, rude, entitled bastard*!

* Ok, so out of those insults to Nick chai didn't use bastard, that was mine.

Chai, you think Nick is rude? Entitled? Self-centered?

I know him pretty well, he's too laid back, too non-confrontational and not rude at all. One of the most easy going and nice people I know. Which is why I, who am not the nice guy Nick is, feel compelled to point this out in his defense and say that you and I are far more rude and self-centered than Nick will ever be.

This is a very silly high horse you are on.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 10:14 pm
@Robert Gentel,
no robert, I didn't use bastard, I also didn't insult him.

I am saying based on what he is writing, which is all almost everyone here knows about him, he comes across as a perfect example of what Mame initially posted. Nothing that a million other people of about that age wouldn't write.

The fact is, reading magazines and playing on the computer while others are talking is rude behavior. Showing up or not at a class or event of any type that one has paid for, or in some way commited themselves to, is rude behavior. Thinking that someone has nothing to offer because they've heard it before is, young behavior.

you have the advantage of personally knowing the person. Everyone else must go by what he writes....just as you must go by what I write.

why are you upset? you got 3 words about you, his wife got one.

Write an essay about Geo. Washington? Don't get that at all. High horse? Again, all you have to go on are the words I write.

Non- confrontational...I don't know, he's done a pretty good job at confronting the posts made. Doesn't appear he needs someone to come to his defense at all. It appears robert, that you were just compelled to speak your mind....that's cool, but don't use someone else who is pulling their own cart as permission to speak your mind...just speak it.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 10:19 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
no robert, I didn't use bastard, I also didn't insult him.


I was pretty clear about that being the only one you didn't use.


Quote:
why are you upset? you got 3 words about you, his wife got one.


Because I think you are being snotty and rude to an unusually nice guy. Not being limited by any such predisposition I have no problem pointing it out. It has nothing to do with mentions on his profile. Unlike you, I don't give a hoot what's on Nick's profile.

Quote:
It appears robert, that you were just compelled to speak your mind....that's cool, but don't use someone else who is pulling their own cart as permission to speak your mind...just speak it.


I don't need "permission" to speak my mind. I'm "entitled" to. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 10:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
wow this makes a lot of sense now. in school all my teachers said i might be a genius.

but i never got anything out of it, just a stupid diploma.the ladies at the ged place where i took some tests, i forget their names..required for graduation, i forget OH proficiencies!! they were taken aback by my score, apparantly medicore knowledge of subjects is amazing.

i finished all of mine in 20 minutes, and my score was 75% in most areas and in english areas it was nearly 99%

what did all this grant me in this great country? a minny wagey.



hooray for academic communism
0 Replies
 
Nick Ashley
 
  4  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 11:06 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
You never know when something you find meaningless at the time becomes very, or even vitally important later on.

I agree. You also never know when you are missing something vitally important because you are wasting time listening to someone half-heartedly try to teach you something you already know.

I feel that one of lifes greatest challenges is prioritization, and finding what is most important in life. It isn't that class was boring, it was that I felt other things were more important then sitting for an hour listening to someone read out of a textbook I own, about a subject I understand. I therefore prioritized other things ahead of it.

Quote:
Everything in life has a lesson.

But does every lesson in life teach you something new? I don't think so. If it does, then what I was spending time on instead of going to class was teaching me lessons as well. Would you agree?

Quote:
Going somewhere, sitting through something you find boring, or beneath you, if nothing else, teaches you patience.

I've never had anyone complain that I am too impatient. And "Working experience with PHP, (X)HTML, CSS, & Javascript" looks better on a resume then "Am Patient" Smile

Quote:
I could be wrong, but based on what you've written it seems you have little practice with putting yourself in the other persons shoes.

Whose shoes do you suggest I put myself in, and in doing so, what should I learn? Putting myself in the professors position, I wouldn't care if a student of mine felt he didn't need to come to my class. Especially a student that is ahead of my class. In fact I would encourage that student to spend the time learning more advanced topics, and being the best he could be. Have you put yourself in my shoes?

As for my profile, what else did you expect? Maybe I'm wrong, but I assumed that people who click on my profile want to read about me.
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 11:23 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

I agree - comments like....."I would fall into the group that felt the teacher shouldn't care if I was late, or didn't show up at all. I paid for the class, what does it matter if I show up or not? By age 18 I was more then capable of learning on my own, I didn't need a professor to read directly out of the book with no further explanation (which many of them did). "

But that last bit is true though. A lot of university classes is just the lecturer reading out the same stuff that's in the books, no added value - or at least it was when I was in university, 10-15 years ago.

And yes, I felt entirely free to not go to classes where I was learning nothing. Because sure, there were plenty of classes where uninspired lecturers went through the motions to make sure that students who wouldn't bother reading the books would still pick up the required information. I liked reading the books, so those lectures were boring like hell to me.

I have to admit that I still don't see why it was more rude of me to just not go, in those cases, rather than to go and be bored. I would invariably pass the tests at the end of those courses easily, so I feel vindicated enough about those choices.
 

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