Jews ask Mormons to stop baptizing dead

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

No.
Thay can.
Traditionally, no cause of action arises from defaming the dead.

Hmmm, interesting. So you're saying that once someone is dead, anyone can write anything they like about the deceased without risk of libel?

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

You're obviously not Jewish, fox. Neither am I but I have no trouble seeing why someone who is would care.

No I am not Jewish, but I think the Jewish people I know understand that nobody else has any power over their religious beliefs. Why assign such power to the LDS church or anybody else? Either those baptisms have some effect on people or they don't. I personally believe they do not; therefore somebody undergoing baptism for me or somebody already departed has no effect on me whatsoever. What difference could it possibly make? It isn't any different from people who have condemned me to hell and who are praying for my immortal soul. They believe they are doing what is right, but it has no effect on me whatsoever. It would only assign power to them should I attempt to stop them from doing it.

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@rosborne979,

In theory, a jurisdiction can vary from that,
if its legislature chooses to do so.

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Other questions to ask would be, "how does it help anybody?" and "why is the LDS church doing it against the objections of the Jewish community?"

The LDS church believes that their church is the vessel by which salvation is achieved, and it is an act of mercy to bring all into that church. So, their 'baptism for the dead' sacrament is an act of mercy to the otherwise unsaved.

I don't subscribe to that belief in any way, but I just can't see how it harms anybody.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

No I am not Jewish, but I think the Jewish people I know understand
that nobody else has any power over their religious beliefs.

An elderly Jew that I know, who is a member
of my fine dining group said to me that Jews:
"are on every side of every question."

1 Reply

I should back up and re-examine one point I may have overlooked in the issue however. I WOULD object to the LDS church then listing the dead they have 'baptized' as members of the LDS church as that could be a violation of a person's chosen legacy. The act of baptism itself I see as innocuous and unimportant. But I would not want my heirs to see my name among the LDS permanent membership.

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Angels and ministers of grace what's next?

The Mormons should tell the Jews that they will stop baptizing the dead when the Jews stop blessing pickles.

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

The Mormons are baptizing the dead? The only thing crazier than that is that anyone cares.

The only reason they care is because these names are being taken out of the database. Erased, at least that's what i gathered.

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Since my conversion to Judaism, I have become increasingly concerned for the souls of those who believe, falsely, that The Messiah has come and gone. Whether these souls have been baptised or not is dependant upon what tradition they were born into and, as always, chance. And it is, in terms of the fate of their souls, irrelevant. To believe that christ was the real Messiah is, in the view of my faith, an abomination. It is to put another god above God.

Thus, for the last three years on each Saturday morning, I have gone to local christian cemeteries and placed a Star of David into the sod above these graves. I do not believe anyone should take offence at this expression of my caring for those souls in the hereafter.

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@blatham,

I can see this issue is more complex than I first gave it credit for.

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@blatham,

Quote:

/Thus, for the last three years on each Saturday morning, I have gone to local christian cemeteries and placed a Star of David into the sod above these graves. I do not believe anyone should take offence at this expression of my caring for those souls in the hereafter.

That's okay, Bernie. It probably cancels out all the crucifixes I put on Jewish graves on alternate Sundays.

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

Quote:
No.
Hmmm, interesting. So you're saying that once someone is dead, anyone can write anything they like about the deceased without risk of libel?

That's exactly right, as a matter of fact. The principle is that the dead can't be offended.

1 Reply

@roger,

Quote:

That's exactly right, as a matter of fact. The principle is that the dead can't be offended.

Nobody seems to be worried about the dead. They're worried about what the living think of the historic record (at least that's what I think they're worried about).

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Anciently, the Irish thought it a great honor to be eaten by their survivors, thus keeping the soul in the family.

You folks can bet you don't need to worry about any of us digging up your dearly departed in order to chow down.

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@OmSigDAVID,

I've heard a similar sentiment: "1500 Jews, 1500 religions."

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@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

That's okay, Bernie. It probably cancels out all the crucifixes I put on Jewish graves on alternate Sundays.

You obscene bastard!

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Eat oatmeal and get better you all! Smile

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

JPB wrote:
You're obviously not Jewish, fox. Neither am I but I have no trouble seeing why someone who is would care.

No I am not Jewish, but I think the Jewish people I know understand that nobody else has any power over their religious beliefs. Why assign such power to the LDS church or anybody else? Either those baptisms have some effect on people or they don't. I personally believe they do not; therefore somebody undergoing baptism for me or somebody already departed has no effect on me whatsoever. What difference could it possibly make? It isn't any different from people who have condemned me to hell and who are praying for my immortal soul. They believe they are doing what is right, but it has no effect on me whatsoever. It would only assign power to them should I attempt to stop them from doing it.

My grandparents (to name four Jews near and dear to me who have departed this earth) were not LDS and never would have been LDS. To have them identified as such, even long after their deaths (they are all gone over 25 years) is abhorrent to me. It's exceedingly offensive. They did not live here and support a land of free religion just to have it removed from their legacy. They'd be thoroughly offended, too.

I find it the height of arrogance by the LDS, deciding, no you didn't really mean to be Jewish, you meant to be LDS. No. They meant to be Jewish. I mean to be Jewish. My family means to be Jewish. Are they dead? Yes. Are they looking down from heaven or any such shtick? No, of course not. They're buried in Brooklyn. But I know. And I give a damn.

1 Reply

@jespah,

Nobody can, or should, be baptized without their permission and without acceptance of what it means to them.

What the LDS' are doing does not, in my opinion, hold any valididty at all and your relatives and, indeed, all Jewish people who have passed will never have any connection with them.

Probably hard to ignore by the Jewish people, but what else could be done?

Do the LDS' baptize in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit? If so, I don't see how they could baptize a Jew who does not accept Jesus as the son of God.

1 Reply

To me it's a simple matter of respect. It is not the right of the living to second guess the lives of the dead, not right to lay our predjudices on them. True, the dead have no awareness and are not truly affected. But, their survivors are affected and many of them really do suffer over this.

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Jews ask Mormons to stop baptizing dead

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