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Compound Bows/Bow Hunting

 
 
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 06:50 pm
Several people seemed to express an interest in bow hunting here recently on the thread about killing one's own food... You'd have to start this one by talking about the new equipment. The average person looks at the new bows with the cams and cables and wonders what in the world all of that is about.

Hunting with archery equipment used to be a very exclusive sort of a deal, requiring the strength to draw a longbow or recurve heavy enough to kill big game animals and the skill to be accurate with one and that only came with long hours of practice; more than anybody not doing it for a living was likely to have available for it. The compound bow with its cams and cables changed all of that; the compound bow is much easier to shoot accurately and at the same time packs a much greater punch than a longbow or recurve of the same poundage.

The 60 pounds of a 60-lb longbow is at full draw. It is difficult to hold and aim for more than a second or two and when the arrow is released, the 60-lbs breaks the arrow's inertia and then, after the arrow is already moving, there is no more than 30 or 40 lbs acting on it.

The compound bow inverts this mechanical system. The 60 pounds of a 60-lb compound bow is at mid draw, and then the bow backs down to around 12 lbs. at full draw. That is easy to hold and aim for as long as needed. When the arrow is released, the 12 lbs breaks the arrows inertia and then, when the arrow is already moving, the 60 lbs acts on it.

In other words, the 60-lb compound bow acts like a longbow with 60 lbs at mid draw, which would be a much heavier bow. At any given poundage, the compound bow hits with a great deal more authority than a longbow or recurve bow of equal draw weight.


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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 10,180 • Replies: 52

 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 06:56 pm
One other thing about this idea of inverting the mechanical nature of the basic bow which is less than obvious...

You don't want an arrow flexing much as it leaves the bow; that imparts stored energy back into the bow in the form of vibration rather than into the arrow. With the 60-lbs hitting the arrow all at once starting with the arrow at rest in the case of a longbow, the arrow has to be heavier and stiffer to avoid flexing.

A compound bow of the same poundage which starts the initial push on the arrow more gently and then builds up force, can use lighter (and faster) arrows.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 07:10 pm
@gungasnake,
That's interesting, and a good explanation. With a frozen shoulder, and no interesting in hunting, I can't call it useful (to me), but interesting all the same.

Did you know that the atlatl flexes and stores energy in the same manner as a bow would if it only hand one limb? Being a one handed weapon, I could stand to play around with it if I had the space and the tools. I did get a brief exposure when I was in Great Falls, MT during a Lewis & Clark exposition. It's not near as awkward as it looks.
dadpad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 07:38 pm
@gungasnake,
Theres a lot more to longbow than just the draw weight. the pleasure of searching for and finding that perfect piece of wood. The development and honing of skills in the building a one piece or your own laminated recurve.
You can build a bow from a piece of flooring bought at the hardware store or search the bush for a year and finally find that perfect piece of ossage.


The space age look of a compund bow leaves me cold as does the feel of fibreglass. There's a lot less skill to be developed through purchasing and hunting wise with a compound. Just like any easily available weapon they tend to be found in the hands of juvenile, low self esteem, idiots who fantasise about being Robin (the) Hood and living in close company with a bunch of men wearing tights or amerindians in lap laps.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 07:44 pm
@gungasnake,
gunga, do you have some suggestions about what type of bow to buy for a first timer? Something pretty entry level but adequate for learning and maybe a few seasons worth of hunting.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 07:51 pm
@roger,
Atlatl "hunting seasons" have been introduced into the PA Legislature for the last 2 sessions. The legislation has gone down in defeat because opponents (mostly the "professionals" in Deer Management). have stated that atlatls are not accurate enough to be a weapon that could insure quick kills with limited non-lethal woundings.

I admit that atlatl design is nifty, and modern atlatls use materials science to refine this paleo technology to an extreme. However, accuracy of the tool has often been problematic.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:24 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Re: gungasnake (Post 3416069)
gunga, do you have some suggestions about what type of bow to buy for a first timer? Something pretty entry level but adequate for learning and maybe a few seasons worth of hunting.


Bear Archery appears to have a couple of things which look sort of like that and there are a couple of other plausible choices but there are several considerations you should get some idea of before trying to buy anything.

You need a minimum of around 50 lbs of pull to try to kill whitetail deer, but the most critical thing about a compound bow is draw length. You HAVE to get a good idea as to your own draw length before buying anything and you cannot do that by trying to buy bows on eBay. Moreover, you cannot shoot something accurately which is a major effort for you to draw. Poundage has to be something you can deal with rather comfortably.

IF you have a very good idea of draw length and some idea of how heavy a bow you can use effectively, then at that point you can buy bows on eBay but I'd recommend that you buy your first bow from Gander Mountain, Bass pro, or something like that.






gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:32 pm
@dadpad,
You can simply do things with the modern bows which nobody could do with longbows or recurves. Fred Bear made several attempts to kill a polar bear with a fairly heavy recurve bow and on all but the last such occasion needed to be saved from death by rifle backup. Modern compound bows can kill the heaviest and most dangerous game.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:36 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Atlatl "hunting seasons" have been introduced into the PA Legislature for the last 2 sessions. The legislation has gone down in defeat because opponents (mostly the "professionals" in Deer Management). have stated that atlatls are not accurate enough to be a weapon that could insure quick kills with limited non-lethal woundings.

I admit that atlatl design is nifty, and modern atlatls use materials science to refine this paleo technology to an extreme. However, accuracy of the tool has often been problematic.

not accurate enuf
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:50 pm
Quote:
not accurate enuf


Not akrita nuf.



roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:54 pm
@farmerman,
Well, crap! They were using these things to bring down mastodons, not some teensy weensy white tail. Anyway, they are a lot of fun. Did I mention I'm not interested in hunting.
Shaunnas Dad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:55 pm
There's so damn many Canada geese waddling around here with little or no
fear of man, that I could get dinner with a Louisville Slugger.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 08:59 pm
@Shaunnas Dad,
You'd get one or two of them, maybe three with your bat fairly easily. After that it would start to get harder pretty quickly.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:00 pm
@farmerman,
On the first floor of the American Museum of Natural History,
thay have an exhibition concerning Teddy Roosevelt,
as well thay might, in that he was very instrumental in founding it.

Among his memorabilia, are poison pen letters
and some letters to the editor exposing him to ridicule n vilification
for his efforts to change spelling on-the-job in the Executive Branch
of the US Government to fonetic spelling, a century ago.

He thawt it woud be more logical n more efficient.
Congress did not support his efforts.





David
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:01 pm
@gungasnake,
Catch 'em when they're molting. Herd them into the oven.
0 Replies
 
Shaunnas Dad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:01 pm
@gungasnake,
The Environmental Police would have my ass in the clink before I got that far.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:03 pm
@roger,
Quote:
They were using these things to bring down mastodons

We r no longer striving to stave off starvation to justify this means.
In a worst case scenario, we can order pizza.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:07 pm
@Shaunnas Dad,
Quote:
The Environmental Police would have my ass in the clink before I got that far.


The baseball bat thing would be pretty flagrant/conspicuous.

A compound bow on the other hand is much less so. You could kill a LOT of geese with a compound bow before the geese (or the cops or thought police) ever figured it out, which might be useful some day if our system were ever to break down, and our grocery stores become empty buildings like grocery stores in the CCCP were.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:10 pm
@gungasnake,
Is it OK if we take one-at-a-time ?
It 'll take a while to consume one of them.

We need to freeze the rest ?
0 Replies
 
Shaunnas Dad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2008 09:11 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The baseball bat thing would be pretty flagrant/conspicuous.

Maybe not. There's a lot of the buggers on the local ball fields.
 

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