"The final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed"

@Robert Gentel,

Self-control is an endangered species. It is easy for people like David who I sometimes doubt is serious due to the extreme nature of his position and the rhetoric he uses to support it but who is THE spokesman for total self-indulgence to use Marxism as a whipping boy. I often wonder whether the Davids are supported by the Republican Party, and here as Fifth Columnists, tearing down the left with non-sensical definitions of Marxism, Communism, communism and capitalism.

Anyway, this is a debate that began during the Age of Enlightenment and which continues.

As a woman, I find men who exercise self-control overwhelmingly sexy. Too bad there are so few of them.

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@rosborne979,

When I first began to learn about economics as a high school student, I thought the sort of growth that American industrialists promoted was akin to Hitler's theory of the state: that business is organic and must grow without fences or boundaries.

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@spendius,

While there is a germ of truth in your statement that it (economic problems) is a desire to live better than one deserves to. . .there are many shades and hues missing from your summation.

YEs, the American public is to blame. As I posted to Robert, self-control is a quality missing from the American profile while hubris is ascendent.

For years, I have been saying that the level of credit card debt . . . I was blindsided by the mortgage thing, although, as I have what I consider a grasp of the history of the mortgage run up, I should not have been . . . was no different than the 1920s practice of buying stocks on the margin.

Both are the use of fake money . . . both are best captured by the character Wimpy from the Popeye cartoons . . . I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

However, spendius, what is lacking in your analysis is that for 80% of the working public, real wages have remained flat since 1979 while advertising has been Satan-on-our-screens rather than our shoulders, urging us to buy.

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@plainoldme,

Quote:

As a woman, I find men who exercise self-control overwhelmingly sexy. Too bad there are so few of them.

As a chap I can't vouch for such a statement but I can vouch for the fact that such men are rewarded by being invited to return and sometimes in a quite abject manner.

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@plainoldme,

Quote:

while advertising has been Satan-on-our-screens

I can agree with that providing that the programmes themselves are seen as usually constituting advertising.

Quote:

for 80% of the working public, real wages have remained flat since 1979

But efficiences of mechanical operations have brought increasing value to those wages.

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@spendius,

Gobbledelgook

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@spendius,

But efficiences of mechanical operations have brought increasing value to those wages.

What???!!!

That means nothing.

Besides, you are arguing against the Congressional Budget Office's statements that wages have indeed been flat. A speaker on NPR acknowledged this and cited it as a reason for credit card debt.

Wages are only worth what they purchase.

If you work two jobs and still can not afford a $500/month apartment . . . even if you could find one . . . "mechanical operations" (whatever they are) do nothing to pay your rent.

Recently, somewhere I heard or read that in the West, we fail to value labor and to understand its relationship to leisure, and, as a result, we have made labor less interesting, less creative and more boring.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

What???!!!

That means nothing.

I was thinking in terms of the purchasing power of essentials of an hour of an average worker's productive working time. (not time spent at the workplace). Inessentials are subject to psychological factors which strictly don't come under economic science. I don't believe that has been flat since 1979. If it has then productive efficiency must not have increased since that time.

Psychological factors are far too complex a matter for useful discussion on here. It would require that invidious comparisons with onlookers be classed as goods. Soul food if you like and the existence of soul is disputed.

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@spendius,

What psychological factors are involved in a flat paycheck?

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@plainoldme,

In its energy source.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Isn't it all the heavily regulated and politicized stuff which is failing, or am I missing something?

No you stre not missing anything, gunga, it is the author of this thread that has missedeverything to do with economics 101. Socialism does not work well, and nor does Fascism.

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@okie,

okie, You don't understand the definition of socialism, and misinterpret everything about this country's economy. Any dictionary will spell it out for you - if you ever want to know the truth about economic definitions.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

While there is a germ of truth in your statement that it (economic problems) is a desire to live better than one deserves to. . .there are many shades and hues missing from your summation.

YEs, the American public is to blame. As I posted to Robert, self-control is a quality missing from the American profile while hubris is ascendent.

For years, I have been saying that the level of credit card debt . . . I was blindsided by the mortgage thing, although, as I have what I consider a grasp of the history of the mortgage run up, I should not have been . . . was no different than the 1920s practice of buying stocks on the margin.

Both are the use of fake money . . . both are best captured by the character Wimpy from the Popeye cartoons . . . I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Do you think that the money is any less fake when it is the government thaat does the borrowing and spending?

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Hmmm. I expected this to be a thread on Trickle Down, aka Reaganomics.

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"The final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed"

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