What to choose and what not to choose?

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Hi there! The problem that I'm about to put forth is almost outdated and well conversed upon, but I still have some confusions (everyone studying this subject is confused actually!) regarding this unsolved problem and would like to get everything straight as soon as possible.

You see, I am a Muslim. Well, Muslim by name because about 3 years ago I started reading all the philosophical stuff which has apparently landed me in a mess. People think, and I think that I have morphed into an Atheist, although a totally detest being one and negate all the Atheist assertions so blatantly stated by them. On one hand I respect my religion and often preach the good things about it to others, and I feel good. And on the other hand, I do not believe in the existence of God, although I am constantly in a quest for discovering Him in any form... be it a revelation in the form of a dream or spiritual Enlightement. I believe that a God does exist, but not as any supernatural entity, but as Mother Nature... an all-encompassing force and all-governing ruler which is distributed, organized and keeps everything in order by constantly interacting with its subcomponents spread out in the Universe. And it is this belief that keeps me running, and gives me the support when I feel like remembering God the most.

Is this hypocrisy? Or am I trying to get out of it? Is it safe to be an agnostic? Should I pay attention to my worldly pleasures and desires or sacrifice them all for a much better and immaculate life in the hereafter? Should I choose to be a freethinker, an agnostic ready to jump back to the 'safe' side of religion, or should I take the risk of being a so-called devil forever... battling against the constant threats and fear injections from the society?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you. Smile

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The problem with Islam and Christianity, is that they have ethically valid proposals, which could help the global society to survive, but are totally depassed by science regarding their view on reality.

The remedy for this would be to live your religion ethically, in every day practical circumstances, and look for ways to upgrade the ontological, explanatory text of your religion, by comparing it with modern science.

You're on the right path in your assertion that there is not only godliness up there, but just as well in here. Everything is holy. Or is not -- but that would be a shame, wouldn't it.

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What wolf says is very good. I, as an atheist, would not try to sway your belief, for I am certain you will in the end make your own path to truth, whatever you decide that to be.

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Throw moist noodles against a new wall, the first intelligible I means Islaam, if C, well Christian, if m z, or icp, run.

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Good advice so far (even if NNy's is a touch...........'arbitrary' Shocked

)

My advice, i'm afraid, is a little more onerous.

The only way to figure out this universe is to amass as much reliable information as possible, 'digest' it, and then think deeply about what actually make sense.
The hard parts are 'the amassing', knowing 'reliable' when you see it, and 'thinking' (in other words all the above).

Discard all religious texts first, as they are based on ancient traditions and problems that do not relate to the world of today; then through your search you will recognize many ethical values, worth retaining, that you may connect to Islam or other religions which are axiomatic ways of behaving which have positive survival value in any creed.
This is really a life time 'proposition' but it is promising that you have begun the process.
And in my experience, once you have had the wisdom to discard religious dogma, the journey toward understanding is greatly simplified. (just don't throw out the wisps of 'inherent wisdom' contained in most widespread religions, with the 'nonsense').

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I would say that personal truths need not necessarily have any relation to facts.

A lot of personal truths lie mostly in ones imagination. Since no one has any one elses imagination it is not likely that any one elses god would satisfy your imagination. Hence Agnosticism is a safe bet.

But I claim to be an Athiest. Hopefully not too militant. I call myself an Athiest because I am simply unable to imagine a God of any sort.

Most Athiests are fairly laid back folks. Pretty well like most Muslims, Catholics, or other normal people. There are also some nutty Athiests, Some nutty Christians, and some Jews that aren't wrapped too tight either. Although I don't KNOW this for a fact, I suspect that there are a certain number of persons who call themselves Cosmologists, Buddists, Engineers or Scientists that have a hold on reality somewhat inferior to mine. (or what I think mine is anyhow Confused

)

In conclusion, Athiesm is not so bad in itself, but if you even think that you can imagine a God of any sort then your self description of Agnosticism would probably be accurate enough for you to live with. That's what matters Exclamation

Try this link

http://www.athiests.org/

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Bookmark

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I'm trying to get my thoughts in order on this one. I'm just on my way out to rehearsal so I'm not organising this very well but I'll come back to this thread anon.
------

Mr Farhan, you have already made the first step to understanding that comes from yourself, from within yourself.
You have started to educate yourself and actually go out and find things out. For yourself. To find out what the facts actually are.
I applaud this in the highest possible terms.

The teachings of religions, regardless of their particular stripe, are all revealed knowledge. In other words the knowledge is already there and is revealed to you as a 'believer' when you get up successive ranks in the club.
They are not formed from knowledge that has come about through independent thought and investigation which is, to my mind at least, the only valid form of knowledge there is because it rests upon actuality and not upon speculation or interpretation.

You have started to look around and see for yourself what the truth is.
This is not hipocrisy. This is learning.

I would caution that just dashing pell-mell down the hedonism route isn't going to get you very far, unless you really need to get something out of your system.

I would further caution that relying upon the promises of revealed knowledge to provide you with any sort of life in the so-called hearafter is unwise, as the way that knowledge was obtained is invalid by it's nature.

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Muhammad.

Personal beliefs are a complex issue but ultimately rest on the concept you have of "yourself" with respect to "the world". The label "Muslim" for example is shorthand for a conditioned worldview which gave you a particular communicative mode with yourself and others. Your revised concept of "God" allows you to resolve some of the inconsistencies that arose due to your later exposure to differing worldviews or "rationalities".
To me, it seems that "thinkers" always take similar journeys in resolving cognitive inconsistencies in their quest to find a meaning for "existence", if indeed it has any meaning at all ! The details of the labels...Muslim, Christian, God, Nature...are to a large extent arbitrary like stations we stop at on a lengthy train journey. The only common agreement along the route seems to be "beware the one who thinks he has arrived".

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Farhan

Sounds to me like you are not sure about the nature of reality.

Here are a few questions:

Is there a God?

Are there gods?

Are there no gods?

If there is a God, what is that God like?

If there is a God, what pleases that God; what offends that God?

If there is a God, what does that God expect of humans?

Do you KNOW the answers to any of those questions?

Is there enough evidence -- unambiguous evidence -- upon which to base a reasonable guess about the answers to those questions?

If the honest answers to the first six questions were all "I do not really know"...

...and the answer to the seventh question was "No"...

...and the answer to the eighth question was "Not really!"...

...then you already are an Agnostic.

I suspect you are an agnostic theist -- someone who acknowledges that he/she does not know the answers to those first six question (or questions of that kind) -- and who acknowledges that he/she truly does not have enough evidence upon which to base a reasonable guess on any of those questions -- but who still feels more comfortable with a theistic blind guess over an atheistic blind guess.

Don't fret about it.

Simply resign yourself to the fact that that is the way things are with you.

Things may change.

At some point, you may decide that the atheistic blind guess makes more sense.

Or, you might have a relapse into theistic "certainty."

Or you might even get lucky and recognize agnosticism for the valuable philosophical persepective it is.

No matter which of those happens -- if any do happen -- just go with it. Your discomfort doesn't seem to be caused by theism, atheism, or agnosticism -- but with your reluctance to accept what you are.

At least that is the way this agnostic sees things.

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On the subject of religion - no one can really know what religion is true, or whether it's ok to be an atheist. For that reason, I think belief should be its own end rather than a description of what is real. For instance, we don't know if we are going to heaven or not, but if you believe you are, than that belief should serve to strengthen you while you're alive, and make you happier even if you do without other benefits. Conversely, if you don't believe that, than that belief (or non-belief?) should serve to help you enjoy the things you love without feeling guilty for them. If belief isn't filling that purpose, than it's not the one for you.

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hello, :-)

(1) dont want to get to another topic, but ...wolf...can you please give me one situation in which Islam contradicts science? I would be very happy to hear abt it.

(2) Mohammad, please, if you really want the answer to your question, then ask your question in a good Islamic forum. I really dont have one now, but I will give you as soon as I find one. gotta go pray in the mosque now....... remember :-) ..... it is ramadan thesedays.

May Allah lead you to the truth. Keep praying, and be sincere. salam

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What to choose and what not to choose?

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