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Russia mulling break with NATO--Watching the Former USSR

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 12:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Syria's former ruler Assad, who has led a regime of oppression and bloodshed, has reached Moscow.
Russia has granted him asylum on humanitarian grounds, according to reports.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 01:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
According to Flightradar24, the Ilyushin Il-76, registered YK-ATA, took off from Damascus on 8 December 2024 at about 04:55, just when rebels captured the city. It continued on a northwesterly flight path across the country, towards its west coast, before banking left towards Homs.
It appeared to descend in altitude before disappearing from the radar near the village of Ram al-Anz, west of Homs, at 5:39 AM. According to Flightradar24, the last reported ground speed was 130 knots at 1,625 feet (495 m).
The identity and number of those on board remains unknown, though reports speculated Bashar al-Assad has been fleeing the country on the plane. (At first there were reports claiming Assad’s plane - this plane - was shot down during Damascus takeover. But he's got officially asylum in Russia.)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 04:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
General Wesley Clark revealed the US would take out 7 countries after Afghanistan:
- Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran
- The role of the media is to sell it as "freedom". They do not explain why you should celebrate an al-Quaeda leader taking power in Syria.

_________________

Video of this conversation by Clark is easy to find—for those who are interested in the truth.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 05:47 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The role of the media is to sell it as "freedom". They do not explain why you should celebrate an al-Quaeda leader taking power in Syria.
Since the uprising began in Syria in 2011, Syrian government forces, with the support of Russia, repeatedly attacked areas controlled by armed opposition groups, carrying out indiscriminate and direct attacks on civilian homes, hospitals and medical facilities, including artillery shelling and air strikes, often using unguided weapons such as barrel bombs, incendiary weapons, internationally banned cluster munitions and toxic gas bombs.


Whatever will happen next, it will be better than before. That's why
Syrians in Syria and in their refugee countries celebrate the fall of Bashar al-Assad after five decades of dynastic rule.


0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 05:56 am
@Lash,
Quote:
General Wesley Clark revealed the US would take out 7 countries after Afghanistan...

It wasn't his policy; it was developed by the Bush administration in the days following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Quote:
They do not explain why you should celebrate an al-Quaeda leader taking power in Syria.

The regime of al-Assad was one of the most brutal in the world. The testimony of tortured prisoners and their families is horrific. The fact that his regime was propped up by Putin doesn't give it any legitimacy, despite what you may heard Tulsi Gabbard say.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 07:23 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
The regime of al-Assad was one of the most brutal in the world. The testimony of tortured prisoners and their families is horrific. The fact that his regime was propped up by Putin doesn't give it any legitimacy, despite what you may heard Tulsi Gabbard say.
For 24 years, dictator Bashar al-Assad ruled Syria - and oppressed, tortured and murdered his own people. Since 2013, he has openly waged war against his own people, using barrel bombs and even poison gas against women and children.
Assad's army alone has killed more than 200,000 civilians in this war against its own people. In total, more than half a million people have died. 13 million Syrians have had to flee from the Assad regime and leave their homes.

And while the people of Syria have suffered, ‘the Butcher of Damascus’ himself has lived in luxury.
The Assad family's secret escape tunnels have been revealed after Syrian rebels discovered the huge luxury underground network amid their raids.
Videos circulating on social media show the rebels exploring a garage packed with high-end cars, including Mercedes-Benz's, Ferraris, Porsches, Audis, and even armoured SUVs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 07:53 am
Having labelled Syrian rebels ‘terrorists’, Moscow is now making diplomatic efforts to protect its military assets in the country

Moscow reaches out to new Syrian leadership in move to secure bases
Quote:
Moscow is seeking to secure the future of its key military bases in Syria while making inroads with the country’s new rebel leadership, after the dramatic collapse of the Assad regime threatened to erode Russia’s influence in the Middle East.

Russia has kept a sizeable airbase in north-west Syria and a naval facility at the Mediterranean port of Tartus since Moscow’s military intervention helped President Bashar al-Assad reclaim most of the country after nationwide protests that began in 2011.

After the collapse of Assad, the Kremlin’s staunchest ally in the Middle East who has fled to Moscow, Russia appears to be turning to diplomacy to preserve its influence in Syria, engaging in a flurry of activity with the rebels it had labelled as terrorists only days earlier.

The Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters that the Russian authorities were taking all “necessary steps to establish contact in Syria with those capable of ensuring the security of military bases”.

Earlier, a source in the Kremlin told Russian state media that the Syrian opposition leaders had agreed to guarantee the safety of Russian military bases and diplomatic institutions in Syria.

The two bases hold an outsized importance to Russia: the Tartus facility gives Vladimir Putin access to a warm water port, while Moscow has used the Hmeimim airbase as a staging post to fly its military contractors in and out of Africa.

The key question now, observers said, is whether Russia manages to reach an agreement with Syria’s new leaders to hold on to its bases.

“I assume Russia wants to hold bases if they can through negotiations,” said Dara Massicot, a senior fellow at Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Resources they can offer: money, barter, oil and gas, limited mercenaries. What matters is if the Syrian coalition would entertain anything from them.”

Massicot said that as of Monday, most of Russia’s military assets remained at the two bases. “If evacuation happens, it will be obvious,” she said.

The Kremlin offered little insight into the future of the bases, stating that it was too early to determine what lay ahead for its military presence in Syria.

In the background though, Russian officials appear to have launched an outreach campaign targeting the leaders who toppled Assad.

In the last 24 hours, Moscow and its state-controlled media have notably softened their rhetoric towards the Islamist group HTS, which led the stunning revolt against Assad that caught much of the world by surprise.

RIA Novosti and Tass, the two leading Russian news agencies have transitioned from labeling HTS as “terrorists” to describing them as “armed opposition”.

The contrast is telling: just days earlier, during a press conference in Doha, Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, visibly angered, emphasised that HTS was a western-backed terrorist organisation that “shouldn’t be allowed to seize land in Syria”.

In another sign of Russia’s eagerness to engage with the new leadership in Damascus, the Syrian embassy in Moscow raised the three-starred flag of the Syrian rebel groups on Monday morning.

Shifting gears, the Syrian ambassador in Moscow delivered a scathing critique of Assad in an interview with Russian state control RT. They said: “The escape of the head of this system in such a miserable and humiliating manner … confirms the correctness of change and brings hope for a new dawn.”

The Syrian embassy also said it was “awaiting instructions from representatives of the new leadership”, the embassy told Tass.

Russia’s shift in approach appears to have borne some early fruit. In contrast to Iran, whose embassy was ransacked in Damascus, Moscow’s embassy has remained untouched. Tass, citing Syrian sources, also reported that the opposition “had no plans to penetrate” the two Russian military bases.

Observers suggested that Moscow might adopt a strategy in Syria similar to its approach with the Taliban, which had been designated a terrorist organisation since 2003 but was later courted by the Kremlin after seizing power in Afghanistan in 2021.

“Moscow prefers to deal with those who have power and control, [and] discards those who lose them,” said Nikolai Sokov, a former Russian and Soviet diplomat who is a senior fellow at the Vienna Center for Disarmament and Non-Proliferation.

This leaves Assad in a position of irrelevance in the Russian capital, having outlived his usefulness to Putin.

While the Kremlin said that evacuating Assad to Moscow was Putin’s personal decision, Peskov stressed the Russian leader had no plans for a public meeting.

By fleeing to Moscow, Assad follows the path of the former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, who escaped Ukraine for Russia in 2014 after weeks of street protests that culminated in a bloody crackdown.

Ironically, Assad once tried to reassure the Kremlin that he was not like Yanukovych, asking a Russian official in 2014 to deliver the message: “Tell Putin that I am not Yanukovych, and I will not leave.”

The Kremlin is widely believed to view Yanukovych as a weak leader who failed to suppress unrest swiftly enough. Early reports from Russian-aligned media and pro-war bloggers suggest that Moscow is similarly placing much of the blame for Assad’s downfall squarely on him.

“Bashar al-Assad cowardly fled the country, abandoning everyone and everything … Even Saddam Hussein had the courage, when it was all over, to address the nation,” Rybar, a popular account with links to the Russian defence ministry, wrote on X.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 07:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Guardian wrote:
In the last 24 hours, Moscow and its state-controlled media have notably softened their rhetoric towards the Islamist group HTS, which led the stunning revolt against Assad that caught much of the world by surprise.

RIA Novosti and Tass, the two leading Russian news agencies have transitioned from labeling HTS as “terrorists” to describing them as “armed opposition”.
Will Lash and her sources 'soften' their view now, too?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 08:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And while the people of Syria have suffered, ‘the Butcher of Damascus’ himself has lived in luxury.


Cars, art and Louis Vuitton: what people found at Assad's presidential palace – video
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 08:30 am
As an aside:
at the end of October this year, there were 974,136 people with (original) Syrian citizenship in Germany.
More than two thirds of these people are seeking protection.

In 2023, 75,485 people from Syria got the German nationality ("citizenship"), in 2022, that number was 48,390.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 10:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No, but Biden, Democrats, and the state controlled Western media have.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 10:43 am
@hightor,
I said that Clark ‘revealed’ the 7 nations, and although I didn’t say it was his policy—if he was serving in the US Armed Forces, it was most certainly his policy as it has been the policy of every president since Bush. Doubtful Trump was so advised.

It is a part of the Wolfowitz Doctrine, spoken of here many times by me and others since the Bush presidency. Very likely handed to Wolfowitz by his Israeli handler.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 10:44 am
@Lash,
No they haven't.

No one's predicting a secure and prosperous future for Syria, which has faced 50 years of repression and 13 years of civil war. The country is free of the Assad family's dictatorship but western governments who are considering recognizing the new government aren't under any illusions, they're simply responding to events on the ground.

NYT wrote:
Major questions remained unanswered, including who would lead the new rebel government, as millions of Syrians and the wider world struggled to process the stunning end to the Assad family’s decades-long reign. Euphoria around the ouster of President Bashar al-Assad over the weekend mixed with uncertainty about the future of country and the intentions of the rebels who now hold the capital, Damascus. source

Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 10:47 am
@hightor,
The regime of al-Assad was one of the most brutal in the world. The testimony of tortured prisoners and their families is horrific. The fact that his regime was propped up by Putin doesn't give it any legitimacy, despite what you may heard Tulsi Gabbard say.

_________________________

Nothing Assad has ever done is worse than what Israel has done and the US has bankrolled for them.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 11:30 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
... western governments who are considering recognizing the new government aren't under any illusions, they're simply responding to events on the ground ...
Many governments can't even hold talks with HTS while it is proscribed as a terrorist group.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 12:19 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Nothing Assad has ever done is worse than what Israel has done and the US has bankrolled for them.

Oh, so now you think you can accurately quantify the relative level of guilt and criminality in armed conflicts? You really don't have the qualifications to render such a judgment. The actions taken by all the parties in both those conflicts are appalling. It's not up to you to indict one as worse than the other.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 12:31 pm
@hightor,
You did.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 01:01 pm
@hightor,
Why did you lie? Why are you hiding it? Humiliation?

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/biden-bashar-assad-fall/

Washington — President Biden on Sunday called the fall of Syrian leader Bashar Assad a "moment of historic opportunity," and he pledged to support the country and its neighbors against any threats.

"At long last, the Assad regime has fallen," Mr. Biden said at the White House, hours after opposition forces entered Damascus and took control of the country.

Mr. Biden pledged to work alongside partners and stakeholders in Syria to "help them seize an opportunity to manage the risk." The president also said he'll send senior officials to the region, help to ensure stability and protect U.S. personnel and will engage with Syrian groups to "establish a transition away from the Assad regime" and toward an independent and sovereign Syria.

hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 01:42 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Mr. Biden says the administration is "clear eyed" about the possibility that ISIS may try to gain control amid a power vacuum, but he said that "we will not let that happen." He noted that the U.S. conducted precision airstrikes within Syria targeting ISIS camps and operatives.

"Some of the rebel groups that took down Assad have their own grim record of terrorism and human right abuses," the president said, adding that the U.S. would assess their actions going forward.


I'd call that a pretty fair analysis. FFS, the rebels haven't even formed a government yet. It's not the time to condemn the forces that defeated Assad. Given the dynamics of the Middle East I'm sure the West will have plenty of opportunities to deplore the policies of any new government but they have to wait until there is one!
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 01:56 pm
@Lash,
Where?

You seem to hold that the deaths of 50,000 Palestinians is worse than the hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, mostly at the hands of the Syrian Military. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights estimates 617,910 killed (507,567 conf. by names) from 15 March 2011 – 15 March 2023. (wiki)

I don't know what criteria you use to determine how one crime against humanity is worse than another. I think at that scale, such comparisons are ridiculous, especially originating from an armchair radical with no experience in battle.
 

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