Spirituality

But whose trappings, hymnology, ritual, routine, disciplines, expectations, doctrine, and dogma shall be deemed the right ones, though Spendi? Is the church who foregoes written prayers or instrumental music or who doesn't include the Eucharist or Holy Communion in the service every Sunday less spiritual or less Christian than the next church that does? Does Jesus care if those partaking of ritual elements view them as consubstantiation, transubtantiation, or a spiritual memorial exercise? Would you dare say that the penitance of the man in his living room is less sincere than that of the man on his knees before the altar?

FranklyI think people in Europe became weary of the rituals and trappings that they did not see as significantly changing their lives. Perhaps that is why so many of the great churches and cathedrals stand mostly empty filled mostly with faint echoes of past generations. Replacing a relatiionship with the living Christ with rituals and disciplines left too many feeling that it was all pointless.

Of course the rituals are significant to many still, and I have felt the presence of God performing them in the Church of course. I regularly attend church, participate in the rituals (though I chose a church that has a minimum of those), I teach, occasionally preach, and volunteer where I can be useful. Some of this I believe is in obedience to and pleases God.

But I do not confuse the church and its rituals and its activities with my relationship with God. I think each person has to meet God one on one--there is no such thing as 'inherited faith'. And so long as we meet Him on His terms, I think He doesn't much care how we got there.

I do think that those who attempt to practice Christianity apart from the Church, i.e. the company and support and encouragement of other Christians, has a much tougher go of it.

Why does it usually have to come down to a debate that someone is going to force an opinion on you. Answering the original question is more fun. I go thru the threads to find answers to the original question so please excuse me for stating an opinion, take it or leave it but stick to the topic....

I don't think that's a satisfactory answer Foxy. It is self affirming and as such lacks religious humility.



I certainly would.

miller, it means to connect with the harmony {that was once} in nature but still exists in the unlimited universe. Everything in the universe, all the elements that exist are in you too. It means to live peacefully with life events and accept that the spirit that you have will continue. Also to not just listen with your ears but to experience what you hear with your heart.

1 Cor 14,15 :-Ma l’uomo fisico non riceve le cose dello spirito di Dio, poiché per lui sono stoltezza; e non [le] può conoscere, perché sono esaminate spiritualmente.  Comunque, l’uomo spirituale esamina in realtà tutte le cose, ma egli stesso non è esaminato da nessun uomo.

Do you plan to quote the entire fairy book in Italian?

Do you think it will strengthen the beliefs of the already believers?

1 Cor 14.15: But the physical man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and not [the] may know, because they are spiritually examined. However, in reality, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man.

To be a spiritual person means that you are religious, even though you don't really want to be.

I disagree...

It may be true that if you are religous you are a spiritual person, but unless you are using the term "religion" in the "re-ligio, return to the awareness of the interconnectivity of everything" sense of the word you cannot equate a spiritual person with a religious person.

formed from dust

made a living soul

created in own image

Body [formed], soul [made] and spirit [created]...

Observably all living matter has a body of some form. Even light though thought of as an energy wave form still is considered also a particle with mass. All breathing matter has been "made a living soul", and some argue that the spirit is created within at some time after physical birth yet some believe that only in humans does/can the spirit reside.

Though theologians argue that humans are all born with the "spark of the divine". This seems like a type of religious appeasement. This is so some can't say well I have the spirit but others don't. I do not agree or disagree with this personally.

Also many confuse and interchange the word spirit with soul though most agree that soul is a lesser form of life than spirit. Where soul life is in the realm of the mortal and animals and most biology possibly even plants possess a soul (maybe even the earth). While spirit life is in the realm of the immortal and it is believed that only humans can obtain this. How humans are created with spirit is another part of the story and a supposed gift of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Comment: The logic behind this is that if soul and spirit were supposed to be used interchangeably they would not both appear in the same verse.

Isaiah 43:7 KJV
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Comment: By the same token made and created must not also be synonymous if both words appear in the same verse.

Formed [body] is simple, made [soul] is a bit more complex and created [spirit] is bringing into existence something that has never been before.

I don't say that I believe or disbelieve any of this, I simply have been taught it and I reserve my judgment as a good agnostic should.

religious

1. relating to religion: relating to belief in religion, the teaching of religion, or the practice of a religion
religious freedom

2. believing in a higher being: believing in and showing devotion or reverence for a deity or deities

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861700319

Spiritual

1. of soul: relating to the soul or spirit, usually in contrast to material things

2. relating to sacred things rather than worldly things

3. temperamentally or intellectually akin: connected by an affinity of the mind, spirit, or temperament
spiritual mother of the young artist

4. refined: showing great refinement and concern with the higher things in life

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?lextype=3&search=Spiritual

Sometimes I tend to equate spiritual with metaphysical in the privacy of my own mind.

Only an opinion:
I was at a talk given by an Indian on the Iriquois beliefs. Having learned in high school the Iriquois believed that the world began on the back of a turtle I didn't think I'd be much interested. Yet when he started to discuss his beliefs I thought him to be a very spiritual man. He didn't talk much about what I saw as folklore (the world beginning on the back of a turtle), but rather the indians perception of nature, life, death and the after life and how they fit into all of that.

Yeah, i always find it pretty annoying that those parts of the belief system take away from the more 'profound' parts in the public eye.

Why would you say profound. Isn't a prson' s spirituality manifessed in the way they conduct themselves according to what they believe?
I may not believe as you do, but what you do and more importantly why you do what you do, speaks volumes about your beliefs to anyone who may be watching and listening.

Having just responded to another thread on spirituality, I decided to include my comments here as well. The thing I noticed most about both threads is that some seem to be defining the word spiritual in a way that applies to everybody, whereas some are simply trying to explain what the word means to them.

We could all just defer to the dictionary, but canned definitions leave me cold, and perhaps others feel the same "coldness" as I do when one tries to define something for me rather than let me think it through for myself. That in itself is, in my opinion, one of the major differences between religious and spiritual.

In fact, I don't think people are using the correct word when they say things like "She is a very spiritual person." I think they mean something that the word was never intended to convey. But helping one another find clarity in our own thoughts is a frequent result of participating in a forum, and to that end, here are a few things others have said that have helped me get a handle on the word spirituality:

“Native American spirituality is simply a walk in the woods…” --Rainbow Eagle

Spirituality says 'May the heavens open up and angels bless everyone with their own light.' but religion says 'Only Jesus got the light, you're full of ****, and in the dark. We're the only ones that got it, so you've gotta go through us to get it.' Man, in this life, the only thing that is holy is your relationship with your heart, your family and the air you breath... -- Carlos Santana

“Live fully, love well and let go…” Jack Kornfield

“How much easier it is to sprinkle yourself with a little blood and water than to purge yourself of malice, to secure salvation without disturbing one’s habits…” H.G. Wells

“After 45 years of trying to make religion fit my experience, then trying to make experience fit my religion, I decided to adopt Ludwick Wittgenstein’s motto: 'I prefer the world as I find it...' -- Stephen Heersink

“Give up your map of hopes and fears, and travel that clear road between desires and expectations by dealing with the world as it really is…” – re:Buddha

“Zen does not confuse spirituality with thinking about god while one is peeling potatoes. In Zen, spirituality is simply to peel the potatoes…” -- Alan Watts

"Every morning before entering the world of chaos and competing beliefs, check the batteries in your bullshit detector..." --Sam Keene

"Uncertainty reminds me that I am always free to play with my options if I will give up my dependance on certainty..." --Billy Dean

"I don't want to believe. I want to know." --Carl Sagan

“Life is not about things—it is about the quality of our relationships and the meaningfulness of our work…” – Free Speech TV

"...encourage people to think philosophically about their beliefs, to cultivate epistemological skepticism..." The Pentacle Queen (A2K forum)

"Saying Yes! to life is being present in the here and now to experience it..." --Ram Daas

"It is the journey that enlightens, not the destination..." --Kwai Chang Caine

--Bill

A great post. Thanks.

Spiritual is intimately related to physical so it is related to worldly matters 100%. The spiritual is the source of the physical but the two are not separate. Spirit is enigmatic and something we, as physical being have a hard time understanding. The practice of meditation or prayer shows the connection well. The word spirit comes from the Latin spiritus which come from the root word spirare "to breathe" and interestingly enough the Greek equivalent which is pneuma, which is not used in English but forms words like pneumatology (the branch of Christian theology concerned with the Holy Spirit, which in Greek is called the Holy Mind) is also based on a word that means to breathe (used in English to relate to the lungs). The reason I am giving you this information is because when a person engages in meditation or prayer they need to remain unaffected by the many thoughts that arise in mind and concentrate or in other words be in the present moment. When they are able to concentrate /be in the present only, then they will find the breath becomes excited but subtle as a newborn babes. This is the position of total rest in the body. It is in this state that the mystical experience comes about. This gives us enormous insight into the connection between the spirutal and the worldly.

The same experience is encountered by the Hasidim when meditating on a flame.

Quote.
they say wrong things about things they do not understand.

Jesus answered, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst.
But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” Unquote

As I said before...Quote -- spiritual person means, NOT an Atheist or a Religionist ( translate "It's all in the mind ")