Kenson
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:50 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Quote:
'Spiritual' cannot be mixed up with worldly matters,
therefore, a spiritual person means, NOT an Atheist or a Religionist,
but a true believer in 'God'.


Does it? What about buddhist monks etc?



Buddhism is a family of beliefs and practices considered by most to be a religion and is based on the teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, commonly known as "The Buddha" (the Awakened One), who was born in what is today Nepal.
He lived and taught in the northeastern region of the Indian subcontinent and most likely died around 400 BCE.


Buddhist monks are NOT believers,
even Buddha was NOT a believer ! Shocked

.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 12:55 pm
@Kenson,
I know.
So you're saying buddhists are not spiritual?
Kenson
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:33 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

I know.
So you're saying buddhists are not spiritual?


What I say, they are NOT true Believers, but Religionists.

According to the Spiritual Philosophy, a Religionist is NOT a 'believer', but an 'unbeliever'. Shocked Shocked

.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:39 pm
@Kenson,
Kenson wrote:

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

I know.
So you're saying buddhists are not spiritual?


What I say, they are NOT true Believers, but Religionists.

According to the Spiritual Philosophy, a Religionist is NOT a 'believer', but an 'unbeliever'. Shocked Shocked

.

What is "Spiritual Philosophy" ?
Where is that defined, that it told u about unbelievers etc.?





`
Kenson
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:01 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Kenson wrote:

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

I know.
So you're saying buddhists are not spiritual?


What I say, they are NOT true Believers, but Religionists.

According to the Spiritual Philosophy, a Religionist is NOT a 'believer', but an 'unbeliever'. Shocked Shocked

.

What is "Spiritual Philosophy" ?
Where is that defined, that it told u about unbelievers etc.?





`


'Spiritual Philosophy' is the philosophy of the Spiritual 'Truth',

or you can say, the philosophy of the term 'God',

or you can say, the philosophy of the everlasting 'Faith' ! Very Happy


.
0 Replies
 
tenderfoot
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 11:35 pm
@Kenson,
Quote --'Spiritual' cannot be mixed up with worldly matters, ( translate-- "It's all in the mind ")
Quote -- spiritual person means, NOT an Atheist or a Religionist ( translate "It's all in the mind ")

Quote -- true believer in 'God' -- meaning, true believer, same as in "father Xmas " -- Alice in wonderland -- the Easter bunny and all that other mythology -- All in the mind of a believer.
Kenson
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2009 06:00 am
@tenderfoot,
tenderfoot wrote:

Quote --'Spiritual' cannot be mixed up with worldly matters, ( translate-- "It's all in the mind ")
Quote -- spiritual person means, NOT an Atheist or a Religionist ( translate "It's all in the mind ")

Quote -- true believer in 'God' -- meaning, true believer, same as in "father Xmas " -- Alice in wonderland -- the Easter bunny and all that other mythology -- All in the mind of a believer.



They say wrong things about things they do not understand.

Jesus answered, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst.
But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2009 08:55 am
@Kenson,


Quote:
They say wrong things about things they do not understand.

Jesus answered, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst.
But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


What "wrong" things are being said about the above passage?


0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 12:08 pm
@Miller,
Quote:
What attributes does a spiritual person possess, that one normally finds lacking in the nonspiritual individual?


An example off the top of my head.

A "non spiritual person" experiencing a decline in his normal good mood would perhaps understand this in terms of physical and chemical imbalances and seek to remedy the situation accordingly (medication, physical excersise, a vacation and so on).
A "spiritual person" would perhaps understand the same scenario as negative mental energies and seek to purge them by means of spiritual excersises (meditation, prayer, excorsism and whatnot).

When it comes to what spirituality actually is, I think each of us has to find out for himself.
For myself, I spend a great deal of time on the non tangible aspects of existence. To me, perhaps being a spiritually inclined person, changes in my everyday perception may just as easily be a result of an altered mindset as exterior influences.
In the end I don't think anyone perceive themselves as either or. It is inevitably a mix. A person who couldn't care less about all things thought of as spiritual would be pretty much oblivious to what is what, while a person who explores the realm of existence that is not physical would have a clearer idea of where the root causes of any given thing that influences him lie.

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 01:45 pm
@Cyracuz,
We can see another example as illustrated by the character of Tevia in "Fiddler on the Roof".

A non-spiritual person goes through his day experiencing various degrees of satisfaction, exhilaration, boredom, anger, frustration, fear, anxiety, etc. but regards the circumstances that create the emotion as good or bad luck, inevitable, normal, inevitable or whatever.

Tevia, a very spiritual man, went through his day in a continual conversation with G-d and, while asking why from time to time, accepting whatever happened as part of some higher plan or purpose.
tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 02:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

We can see another example as illustrated by the character of Tevia in "Fiddler on the Roof".

A non-spiritual person goes through his day experiencing various degrees of satisfaction, exhilaration, boredom, anger, frustration, fear, anxiety, etc. but regards the circumstances that create the emotion as good or bad luck, inevitable, normal, inevitable or whatever.

Tevia, a very spiritual man, went through his day in a continual conversation with G-d and, while asking why from time to time, accepting whatever happened as part of some higher plan or purpose.


For my part, I'd rather be the former, rather than the latter, example. The joys and frustrations that define our every day seem richer while holding onto the bar of the roller coaster of life. Tevia can keep his banal cell-phone-stuck-to-his-ear life.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 03:36 pm
@tycoon,
Tevia, however, did not see wasted time or inconvenience as a frustration but rather as having purpose. You don't think that could provide him with a contentment or satisfation that non-spiritual people might not know?
0 Replies
 
tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 04:33 pm
I'm not sure Tevia is in any position to imform us on how to live. He thinks he's found it, and that's all that matters. To Tevia.

I'm not him, and I wouldn't want to be. I'm familiar with the spiritual side of things, and it is ultimately lacking, IMO.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 05:27 pm
@tycoon,
Tevia wasn't instructing anyone on how to live and he didn't preach to anybody. Tevia was informing us on how he lived. I think someone like him is at peace with himself and his world. I am not Tevia either, but I sure don't have any reason to knock his way of life.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 12:42 pm
A fine point that seems to escape many people is that spirituality in itself isn't neccesarily linked to any concept of god.
Spirituality is not religion!
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 12:55 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

A fine point that seems to escape many people is that spirituality in itself isn't neccesarily linked to any concept of god.
Spirituality is not religion!


Spirituality, however, is by definition linked to a concept or awareness or notion of spirit or that which exists beyond the purely physical realm. I agree that it does not have to be defined as religion or religious, but it does involve that which must be described as 'other worldly' or some such description of the intangible.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 01:21 pm
@Foxfyre,
I disagree Foxy.

Why does it have to be "beyond the purely physical realm"?

Brain is a physical concept, it is tangible. Mind, on the other hand, is not. And I am pretty sure that even the most die hard atheist can relate to the concept of mind.

Spirituality is not only about the "other worldly". There are things we accept are real even though we cannot see or measure them with any accuracy. Are your emotions otherworldly?
If you undertake the "quest" to become fully aware of your emotions and how they affect your daily life, to become their master rather than their puppet, are you not on a "spiritual quest"?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 03:09 pm

Is there a tacit assumption
that "the purely physical realm" actually exists, apart from imagination ?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 03:27 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

I disagree Foxy.

Why does it have to be "beyond the purely physical realm"?

Brain is a physical concept, it is tangible. Mind, on the other hand, is not. And I am pretty sure that even the most die hard atheist can relate to the concept of mind.

Spirituality is not only about the "other worldly". There are things we accept are real even though we cannot see or measure them with any accuracy. Are your emotions otherworldly?
If you undertake the "quest" to become fully aware of your emotions and how they affect your daily life, to become their master rather than their puppet, are you not on a "spiritual quest"?


You're suggesting an area that requires a great deal of thought and I'm not confident I have words to describe all the myriad factors involved.

Is 'mind' something apart from the brain or a function of the brain? We know that apes have been described as having some cognizant reasoning ability that alows them to transcend natural instinctive response and that humans have a high degree of such ability. So neither is a prisoner to or limited by inate instinctiveness that defines both. Does a newborn baby consciously seek his mother's milk or is that an instinctive compulsion? At what precise point does the seeking of nourishment become a conscious decision apart from instinctive compulsion? And ultimately, is there a difference between these two things?

Is attempt to master ones emotions any different than attempts to train one's muscles or hand/eye coordination or train yourself in certain kinds of expertise? What makes one different from the other?

But I see the spiritual is a reaching for power or knowledge or ability outside of that which we are bound to by virtue of our instinctive compulsion to behave as humans behave. I don't think it is always necessary that our mind consciously understands something as a spiritual influence or spiritual exercise, but to be spiritual, I think it must be communion with something greater than or outside of ourselves.
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 07:58 pm
@Foxfyre,
You ask a good question; "Is 'mind' something apart from the brain or a function of the brain?"

I'd say, straight off, that the mind is a function of the brain. But I would add that how the brain works is just as easily influenced by how the mind works as the other way around. It's possible to alter the chemical balance of the brain by using chemical substances. This will also alter the experience of the mind. But I know for a fact, based on personal experience along with scientific data, that a conscious effort to alter the experience of the mind can change the chemical balance of the brain. The two are linked; they are two sides of the same coin.

But more to the point, I am a very spiritually inclined person. The people who know me come to me when they need guidance in issues concerning non tangible forces that influence us. When they do not have the foundation or the conceptual basis to navigate by themselves. I am able to provide support, and by asking the ocasional question, to highlight certain aspects that are worthy of further contemplation.

We each create our own metaphysical reality in which we live, an image of the world in which we function. This is a spiritual thing. Every human being does this, wether he knows it or not. Among my friends there are those who pay this process no attention at all. They see it as not worthy of their time. But they have also seen me maintaining my strength in the face of things that would bring them to their knees. So when they face difficulties they cannot handle they turn to me for guidance. Not because I possess skills they don't have. Simply because I have chosen to explore the realm of the unseen, the functions that enable us to act as human beings.

In a way, as I see it, a person does what humans do by virtue of being what they are. You can do this without paying attention to the process itself.
To pay attention to the process is to be aware of the spiritual aspect of existence.

To put it a bit more bluntly; I never bring this imagery up unless I want to provoke someone for any given reason:
If you simpy exist within the bounds set for you, if you just react to what happens to you without questioning how things affect you, how can you set yourself apart from sheep, or monkeys or ants or any other living organism? To be aware of the functions behind your own existence is the very ability that sets us apart from all other living creatures on this planet. These functions are our spirituality. If you pay them no heed you are a puppet to your wants and needs. To live in such a way is to live like an animal. Do it if you wish, I know that I have the potential to extract a lot more from existence that that, simply by embracing my spirituality.
 

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