0
   

thumb up, thumb down, thumb in the eye

 
 
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:06 pm
Quote:kraven
"Further, not all our members are models of maturity and objectivity. I have no confidence whatsoever that you can avoid "voting based on...whether or not they like the person or agree with them" and "using the ratings for character assassination."

You don't need to trust that I have the ability to prevent them from doing so, but I don't think your confidence would be misplaced if you trust that I can make that not change your user experience negatively if you really don't want it to
.

Yesterday 8 people read 900 posts in 'just whatever' and decided to give me 8 thumbs down... no explanation .... it was on my oldest thread ..... 35000 hits gets trumped by 8 bottom feeders.


At this rough launch we already have simple measures in place to prevent abuse. For example if someone were to create a bunch of accounts to vote, they'd see the votes on their account but it wouldn't show up on yours because it wouldn't be counted for the community. We'll do a lot of algorithmic stuff to mitigate the negative experience. Sure, someone may hate you and just start voting you down but it doesn't have to make a difference for you if you don't want.
All I can think of to say is 'huh'?
Ultimately, the bottom line is this. We have a very small handful of moderators. I'd say that less than 4 or 5 are actively moderating daily. This is a tool for community moderation if you want it. Sure, the mob may not do better than the mods (I personally think they won't, the mods are great folk) did but they can scale and it's all more fair.

So we are in the hands of 4 or 5 people who operate in secrecy .... because they can scale?

Democracy is not without its flaws, and sometimes there will be the tyranny of the mob but like any good democracy there needs to be measures in place to mitigate it.

Right now, the ratings can put the stuff the community likes in front of you, and hide the stuff it doesn't. If you don't agree with the community, just turn their influence off. Don't sort by most votes, and don't let posts topics collapse after a certain vote threshold.

But what I'd really rather you do is use your vote. If you and the good guys are out there voting and keeping the bad guys buried the overall experience for the whole community can be better. There's no reason to cede the vote to the bad guys. "

Are the bad guys the communist or the terrorist?
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:08 pm
@Gelisgesti,
Thumbs down for being illegible.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:10 pm
@Gelisgesti,
Interesting color combinations.

Quote:
There's no reason to cede the vote to the bad guys. "


What if you find the whole process of voting to be insipid, a waste of time and something you personally are uninterested in? Isn't that a good reason to cede it to others who don't?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:16 pm
Quote:
Yesterday 8 people read 900 posts in 'just whatever' and decided to give me 8 thumbs down... no explanation .... it was on my oldest thread ..... 35000 hits gets trumped by 8 bottom feeders.


Aren't you doing the same thing when you make assumptions about the motives behind the thumbs down and the people giving them?

For all you know, 25 people may have voted it down and 17 more people voted it up so that the net result for the moment in time when you viewed it was -8. If 16 more people vote it up to give it a +8 will you still be labeling people as bottom feeders because they choose to customize their A2K experience to their own liking?
Gelisgesti
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:21 pm
@Robert Gentel,
thats ok, i expected arbitrary kraven
try ctrl a (hold down the control key with a key)
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:26 pm
@Gelisgesti,
I have sometimes voted up when I noticed lots of votes down and it appears to be just out of "meanness". I don't now if I have actually voted down yet - but I may if I feel what is said is a$$ine.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:26 pm
@Gelisgesti,
You can highlight all that yellow text. The words are easily read, and still illegible.

What you got here, are a number of people not wanting to clutter up their display with threads they are uninterested in. I am one of them.
0 Replies
 
Dudley Bowring
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:38 pm
@Gelisgesti,
A thumb in the eye sounds painful.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 01:41 pm
@Butrflynet,
my point is no post were thumbed in the whole thread .... not even mine, just the thread.
methinks thou doth protest too much .... couldest thou be a moderator hmmmm
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 02:20 pm
@Gelisgesti,
If customizing my viewing on the site to my personal liking means that I'm a moderator then you betcha! I'm a moderator of my very own customized A2K that is for me and me only. Guess what? You can moderate your version of it too!

I'm one of the "bottom feeders" who chooses to customize the site to my personal interests by using the vote mechanism to collapse topics I'm not interested in repeatedly seeing in my New Posts list. I do this so that the time I spend here is for reading what interests me rather than scrolling down pages and pages of stuff that doesn't interest me. Personally, I'd rather just have a collapse/expand topic mechanism without a vote count, but that's all we have at the moment.

Why would I go into a thread I have no interest in to vote down posts in it if all I want to do is collapse the entire thread so it is out of my view on the New Posts list?

If you have no interest in the Food category, should you be required to visit each topic and vote on each post if all you wish to do is collapse all the topics on Food so your List only has the Games threads that you participate in?
Gelisgesti
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 04:05 pm
@Butrflynet,
So you can look at a thread's name and tell if there is anything that would interest you and based on that information give it a positive or in this instance a negative rating? When do you think there will be a time when only threads you like pop up and you can just sit there knowing you won't have to choose because you can determine a book by it's cover.
We have been told that the numbers are meaningless.... then why are they there? Does anyone out there think negative numbers, are positive?
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 04:17 pm
@Gelisgesti,
Wow - thin skinned or what?

The thumbs down just mean some people aren't interested in a thread called 'Just whatever ' - with a subject like that you don't have to read 900 posts. It doesn't mean they think it's shite, or they have a personal vendetta against you. They just aren't interested. Is that OK? Or does our lack of interest constitute and attack on your personal liberty and your measure of self worth?

Sorry. In crappy mood. Tired of all the angst displayed while people figure out the new A2K.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 04:49 pm
@Gelisgesti,
Come on, you're a lot smarter than this Gelisgesti.

You bemoaned about why people were thumbing down your thread without having voted on any of the individual posts.

Just because I don't vote down specific posts in a thread doesn't mean I did not open the thread to scan what it was about before using the vote mechanism to collapse the topic from my New Posts view. The same thing happened on the old A2K. Lots of folks opened threads to see what they're about but never participated with a post in them. The number of replies on a thread rarely if ever match the number of views on a thread. The difference is that now we get to customize our List Views on A2K to suit our own personal preferences. As I said before, I wish we had a way to collapse topics from view without it being a vote, but we don't.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 04:55 pm
@Gelisgesti,
Ge, you really are over-reacting.

Quote:
my point is no post were thumbed in the whole thread .... not even mine, just the thread.
methinks thou doth protest too much .... couldest thou be a moderator hmmmm



That is how it is SUPPOSED to work.

Those folk were not necessarily saying they didn't like the thread, or you, they were saying they didn't want the thread showing when they search, because they do not wish to POST in it.

You and those who love the thread just tag it, and it will always be findable for you, and for those of us who have "no collapse" in their preferences.

Have a look round and get used to the place before getting so distressed.





hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 05:31 pm
@dlowan,
hoping that when i use the "collapse" feature , this is NOT going to happen to me !
hbg

http://marginalizedactiondinosaur.net/wordp/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/building-collapse.jpg

0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 05:32 pm
@dlowan,
The info in this other thread might be helpful to you too:

http://able2know.org/topic/121186-1

I'll post it here for you so you don't have to look further if you don't wish to:

Quote:
Votes are not the only way of measuring the popularity of your thread.

You can also sort by Most Replies.

You can also sort by Most Views.

You can also see the popularity of threads through time. All Time is good, but you can see the most popular threads of the last day, or the last week.

Want to see what new stuff people are talking about? Choose Topic Age: Day and Sort By: Most Replied.

Choose All Time and Most Replies.

Eight of the all-time top-ten threads are games.

Number three is Letty's WA2K Radio thread.

Number ten is Sozobe's Obama '08 thread.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 05:43 pm
I just didn't like being either good or bad, white hat or black, with us or against us '. Bushisms ...... division.

anyhow thx dl
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 07:02 pm
I'm with ya, doug. I may not always reply, but I read your threads.
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 11:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
Thanks Ed .... I got 'just whatever' back, I think. It has real small type that says something like 'voted down' then 'view'. I don't know what to do with it.
thx for your support .... hasta la winnebago. Smile
jespah
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 04:02 am
@Gelisgesti,
Go to your Profile>Edit Preferences (when you open it up it'll be called My Preferences)>Minimum Topic Votes> select No Minimum

Click Update Preferences.

And that's it.

PS Essentially, the thumbs down means --- I am not interested in this topic (or post) right now. Really. That is the usage for many people. For others, it might be I hate this person or I hate these views or I'm too busy to read this or I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.

Or whatever. But it doesn't matter, really, now, does it? Some will vote up, others will vote down. Some will take the time to open and read, others won't. That's the way it was before except you didn't see the shading behind it, and even now you're not seeing much shading behind it.

Voting, just like tagging, is going to really get cooking when it's done on a lot of topics by a lot of people. As you see the system maturing (and yes, it is happening right now, actually), you'll see things evening out and other nuances coming out. Plus Craven is working on the voting so even that is going to see some changes.

The vast majority of the time, it's really not meant to be personal. I'm sure most of us think the people who start the trivia topics are fine and wonderful people -- we just don't feel like hanging out in those rooms so right now we are shutting those doors. That is not a value judgment, it's just a door that is currently shut and may or may not be opened again.

I have little doubt that there are topics here that you don't want to read. And you can either scroll past them or you can vote on them and collapse them from your view. Your choice! The philosophy behind this change is and was to give more choice to the individual. So exercise your freedom of choice.

Freedom's a good thing, isn't it?
 

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