Barter vs Money ... and End to Evil?

Forums: Philosophy
Email this Topic • Print this Page

soul_doctor73 wrote:

Portal Star wrote:
soul_doctor73 wrote:
Abolish religion! You got my vote. I say, burn it all. This article just proves my point. Lightwave is spreading light.

Kudos to you.

"...Let loose the dogs of war."

Burn it all? Thank you for embodying what I dislike in religion and totalitarian regimes. How do you intend to do abolish religion? Give tax benefits to those who sign a no g-d waver? Burn their books? Burn all the religous paintings? Force the religous into camps? Burn them?

BTW, husker should have a right to preach, and if he does so intelligently I will welcome it. I preach about agnosticism.

The first thing I would do is burn all currency as fuel for religious propaganda. No money = no greed; no greed = no liars; no liars = no theives; no theives = no preachers; no preachers = no religion; no religion = world peace.

Oh, great. We could to back to bartering or maybe trading with seashells. You think that money is responsible for greed? And greed responsible for lying? .... And you think world peace is possible? Maybe you've been listening to a bit too much Marx and John Lennon.

Please never get involved in politics. Or if you do, tell me
and I will leave the country.

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,530 • Replies: 27

No top replies

Portal Star wrote:

soul_doctor73 wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
soul_doctor73 wrote:
Abolish religion! You got my vote. I say, burn it all. This article just proves my point. Lightwave is spreading light.

Kudos to you.

"...Let loose the dogs of war."

Burn it all? Thank you for embodying what I dislike in religion and totalitarian regimes. How do you intend to do abolish religion? Give tax benefits to those who sign a no g-d waver? Burn their books? Burn all the religous paintings? Force the religous into camps? Burn them?

BTW, husker should have a right to preach, and if he does so intelligently I will welcome it. I preach about agnosticism.

The first thing I would do is burn all currency as fuel for religious propaganda. No money = no greed; no greed = no liars; no liars = no theives; no theives = no preachers; no preachers = no religion; no religion = world peace.

Oh, great. We could to back to bartering or maybe trading with seashells. You think that money is responsible for greed? And greed responsible for lying? .... And you think world peace is possible? Maybe you've been listening to a bit too much Marx and John Lennon.

Please never get involved in politics. Or if you do, tell me
and I will leave the country.

Politics? It would be the first pillar to fall. Now how is politics supported? Money. Hrm, politicians are often called: liars, theives, and if I'm not mistaken, 'greedy' as well. Without money, no politicains. They don't want to spend *their* money, they want to spend yours.

I don't have any. And if I did, I'd be the first to destroy it publically.

One day, if you hear of a bon fire of dollar bills, remember you heard it here first.

0 Replies

soul_doctor....I have a question. I am a caterer. I have occassionally done barter. What do you have to offer me in exchange for money, should I choose to do a fine meal for you? Also, what is this timetable you speak of, personal or otherwise? You have made inroads here, now is the time to share, my man.

0 Replies

husker -- and I just thought you were just heading toward the end of a six pack!

0 Replies

I think soul_doctor is back on his own planet.

0 Replies

cavfancier wrote:

soul_doctor....I have a question. I am a caterer. I have occassionally done barter. What do you have to offer me in exchange for money, should I choose to do a fine meal for you? Also, what is this timetable you speak of, personal or otherwise? You have made inroads here, now is the time to share, my man.

In order to answer your question, a certain set of circustances must first exists. Mainly, you must want a service of mine, or I must want a service of yours, in this case dinner. Now, if you have no need of my service, then there is likely nothing I could offer in exchange for your service. If there was a mutual desire to exchange services, the services themselves are irrelevant, the barter is mutual and thus agreed upon.

Now money doesn't allow for bartering very often, unless the services are personal. I myself am a computer expert, I could build you a computer from scratch, install whatever you want on it, install a home network and set the computer up on it. Or I could simply uprade your current PC. I could fix your car, if it's 80's model or older. Write a song, or a poem. Or trade you one of my short stories. But you'd have to be interested. Smile

Now, I prefer barter as it is much more practical and is conducive to long lasting relationships as all interactions are personal. And I just happen to have a great personality, in my opinion. Smile

As for things more in depth, I do not yet think my inroads are significant enough to delve into that arena. At least not right now. Maybe you understand my apprehension. The flames have just eased up. I kinda like the cool atmosphere.

0 Replies

There were barter plans available -- TradeAmerica was one of them but I don't know if they still exist. They were not successful -- I found them cumbersome and not enough business were participating the last time I had any experience with them (about fifteen yeas ago).
But to make a barter system universal would be impossible.

Keep up the dreaming, soul, you may make it to paradise yet. However, you might find some thorns even there.

0 Replies

Lightwizard wrote:

There were barter plans available -- TradeAmerica was one of them but I don't know if they still exist. They were not successful -- I found them cumbersome and not enough business were participating the last time I had any experience with them (about fifteen yeas ago).
But to make a barter system universal would be impossible.

Keep up the dreaming, soul, you may make it to paradise yet. However, you might find some thorns even there.

History considered, and mankind's tendency to leave 'well enough alone', I'd agree. But if something were to happen that would alter things in such as was as to make it possible? A universal barter system would be a byproduct of the type of change I envision, not the goal. Point being, one must start somewhere in order to accomplish anything. And as for the thorns, I have an ace in the hole. Can't be trumped.

0 Replies

soul_doctor, I concur. My current computer was built on barter Smile

0 Replies

soul_doctor73 wrote:

Lightwizard wrote:
There were barter plans available -- TradeAmerica was one of them but I don't know if they still exist. They were not successful -- I found them cumbersome and not enough business were participating the last time I had any experience with them (about fifteen yeas ago).
But to make a barter system universal would be impossible.

Keep up the dreaming, soul, you may make it to paradise yet. However, you might find some thorns even there.

History considered, and mankind's tendency to leave 'well enough alone', I'd agree. But if something were to happen that would alter things in such as was as to make it possible? A universal barter system would be a byproduct of the type of change I envision, not the goal. Point being, one must start somewhere in order to accomplish anything. And as for the thorns, I have an ace in the hole. Can't be trumped.

Barter would be a huge step backwards.

0 Replies

If being able to trade for something you need because you have something someone else wants, and not need 'money' for it, and you see that as step backwards?

I suppose my focus is on the problems of money and not its perceived solutions. Money is the reason for all life's woes. Show me a person were money is not somehow invovlved in the problems of their life, and I'll show you someone who has absolutely no idea what 'money' is or what it's for.

You did mention discussion, Frank. How's about you elaborate on your comment?

0 Replies

The only barter organization I could find that may or may not be up-to-date on Google:

http://www.ncbarter.com/home.html

Apparantly the two major national companies are now defunct, a victim of lack of response. I worked for an advertising company at the time we were using the barter system and it was not a good experience. I think the price wars online on the internet and the slow economy killed off the existing barter organizations.

I have bartered lighting products for art in the past but it isn't often that it works. For one thing, it's difficult to decide what dollar value to put on what you are trading and negotiating at what price level one is going to trade at. To actually make it work fairly, both would have to trade at full retail or you wouldn't get an equal value. It really is almost unworkable in that way because it makes it difficult to compare prices. My vote is that it can work in some cases, especially services for product, but it is just as difficult if not more so to negotiate a deal than just using conventional monetary trade.

This is way off subject so I suggest we break this off into another discussion. Anyone want to post something? Otherwise, let's get back to the subject at hand - religion and terrorism.

0 Replies

soul_doctor73 wrote:

If being able to trade for something you need because you have something someone else wants, and not need 'money' for it, and you see that as step backwards?

Absolutely, positively. And so would anyone with a brain -- no insult intended.

Money is simply a way of simplifying the exchage transaction -- so that the problem of equality of trade is eased -- and complicated transactions are facilitated.

Yes, money was invented to help facilitate the exchanges necessary to a complex society -- and going back to bartering would be a HUGE step backwards.

Quote:

Money is the reason for all life's woes.

Get away from statements like this, Doc. They do logic no special favors -- and they do nothing to enhance the arguments of anyone using them.

The love of money and the search for money indeed are part of many of the woes with which we humans deal -- but money is not the reason for all life's woes -- not by a long shot.

Quote:

Show me a person were money is not somehow invovlved in the problems of their life, and I'll show you someone who has absolutely no idea what 'money' is or what it's for.

Sounds like another sound bite for your K-Mart presentation.

I've taken a vow of poverty -- and very, very few of the problems in my life (few that there are) derive from money or the lack of it -- and I absolutely have a idea of what money is and what it is used for.

Try to stay realistic and stay away from sound bites. They suck.

Quote:

You did mention discussion, Frank. How's about you elaborate on your comment?

The last person in A2K that you have to worry about not being willing to discuss anything at length, Doc, is me.

What do you want to discuss?

0 Replies

I'm having this split off into a new topic on money - the root of all evil in the Philosophy section. It may take a while. Please continue with the discussion of the topic (I know, I started digressing as well on post not pertinent to the discussion).

0 Replies

Frank: You make statements as if the perception you relay is irrefutable. You tell me to get away from 'thinking' the way I do. Why do you suggest it? Are you, basically, saying to me that everyone else's problem is their problem and not my own?

From what you set forth, the woes of life I speak of must not be 'woeful' to you if you can discount them so easily. But, before you interpret this is requiring a reply from you, it does not. Apparently your opinion of life and our society is peaches and plums, either that or the 'woes' in the world do not concern you.

If this is the case, there is nothing to discuss. Your point of view extends to your front door. I'll just wave and say 'bye'.

0 Replies

soul_doctor73 wrote:

Frank: You make statements as if the perception you relay is irrefutable.

Holy ****! Talk about kettle calling pot black!!!!

Get off it.

Quote:

You tell me to get away from 'thinking' the way I do. Why do you suggest it? Are you, basically, saying to me that everyone else's problem is their problem and not my own?

I have no idea of what in hell you are talking about. If I have said something with which you disagree -- quote it and tell me what there is about it that you find wrong.

I'll respond.

Quote:

From what you set forth, the woes of life I speak of must not be 'woeful' to you if you can discount them so easily. But, before you interpret this is requiring a reply from you, it does not. Apparently your opinion of life and our society is peaches and plums, either that or the 'woes' in the world do not concern you.

Another bit of rambling.

Originally you said: "Money is the reason for all life's woes."

You are wrong there -- just plain wrong.

I called that to your attention -- and now you are rambling.

Get your head on straight and argue as though you really have something to say.

Quote:

If this is the case, there is nothing to discuss. Your point of view extends to your front door. I'll just wave and say 'bye'.

You want to discuss something -- discuss it, and I will participate respectfully and intelligently. If you want to share silly bromides, I'm going to call your silliness to your attention.

If you don't have the stomach for it -- don't interact with me. But don't pretend you are making an intellectual choice here, because you are not.

NOW -- do you want to discuss reasonably and logically -- or do you want to pout?

0 Replies

This is in the process of being split off but in the meantime since we are not talking about the subject of the thread, love of money is the problem. It would just become love of bartering as in bartering many unscrupulous things can also take place. Money is slowly disspearing in the form of currency and coin -- it's electronic money that is taking over. But for small shops, restaurants, etc., currency will go on being used through the future of our society until people cease to find a need for cash. Then what are all those people going to do who have a second set of books?

You know what the ignorant accountant did -- he cooked the second set of books.

0 Replies

Sorry, LW, I know you want to keep this thing on track, but this so-called soul doctor has got to be answered -- and I'm going to do it.

When this splits -- I hope you stick around.

0 Replies

Lightwizard wrote:

This is in the process of being split off but in the meantime since we are not talking about the subject of the thread, love of money is the problem. It would just become love of bartering as in bartering many unscrupulous things can also take place. Money is slowly disspearing in the form of currency and coin -- it's electronic money that is taking over. But for small shops, restaurants, etc., currency will go on being used through the future of our society until people cease to find a need for cash. Then what are all those people going to do who have a second set of books?

You know what the ignorant accountant did -- he cooked the second set of books.

My point exactly Light. The 'need' for money. Frank has no 'need' for money, so he has 'no idea what I am talking about'. But Frank 'knows' money is not the problem. Frank knows. Lucky Frank.

0 Replies

I don't know, Frank -- I dislike playing armchair psychiatrist but just when soul starts making some sense he seems to regresses back into some kind of Fruedian (or Jungian?) nightmare.

0 Replies

Barter vs Money ... and End to Evil?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know