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Stephen Hawking

 
 
baddog1
 
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:54 am
I've read many articles on him but none of his books; planning to soon though, beginning with: "A Brief History of Time".

Hawking's position on God is well documented as is his popularity in the science-community. Since most on here consider God and science to be like oil & water - what are your thoughts on this man?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 09:43 am
Scientific discovery and human reasoning have provided many answers.

But it is the height of arrogance to conclude that scientific discovery and human reasoning can provide all of the answers
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 10:34 am
neologist wrote:
Scientific discovery and human reasoning have provided many answers.

But it is the height of arrogance to conclude that scientific discovery and human reasoning can provide all of the answers


Is one to conclude from your tone that it is not the height of arrogance to conclude that your preferred imaginary friend superstition can provide all the answers?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 06:44 pm
I've already allowed that answers may come from other sources.

So, what's your point, fur face?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:11 pm
A scientists religious beleifs (or lack of ), has no bearing upon their work .
So baddogs question is as relevant as if hed asked about Hawking's political prefernce.

I can see where the CRaetionists would attempt to confuse the issue, but Im not aware of any valid Creation Scientist.
"By ntheir works shall ye know them"
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:15 pm
neologist wrote:
But it is the height of arrogance to conclude that scientific discovery and human reasoning can provide all of the answers

Are you sure?

Maybe it's the height of arrogance to presume to know the limits of human reasoning and scientific discovery.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:17 pm
grrr, didnt run the friggin spellCzeck.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:20 pm
Re: Stephen Hawking
baddog1 wrote:
I've read many articles on him but none of his books; planning to soon though, beginning with: "A Brief History of Time".

Hawking's position on God is well documented as is his popularity in the science-community. Since most on here consider God and science to be like oil & water - what are your thoughts on this man?

He seems like a smart guy who has done very well for himself despite his physical condition.

What is "Hawking's position on God"? I can't remember.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:22 pm
farmerman wrote:
A scientists religious beleifs (or lack of ), has no bearing upon their work .
So baddogs question is as relevant as if hed asked about Hawking's political prefernce.



Right. And Richard Dawkins religious beliefs (or lack of) has no bearing upon his work either does it? Give us a break fm. Am very surprised to see you peddling that junk.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:48 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
neologist wrote:
But it is the height of arrogance to conclude that scientific discovery and human reasoning can provide all of the answers

Are you sure?

Maybe it's the height of arrogance to presume to know the limits of human reasoning and scientific discovery.
Yeah . . .
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:51 pm
I cant do it because even I have limits on taste. So, I will not post it, but, should you wish to hear Stephen HAwking's comment about when he became a Born AGain Christian go to google and put in Stephen HAwking becomes a Born Again Christian, youtube.

Remember, I warned you.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jun, 2008 07:52 pm
farmerman wrote:
grrr, didnt run the friggin spellCzeck.
That would be my friend, Blazej Soukup. One Czeck name hard to spell. I heard he can run, though.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2008 08:36 am
farmerman wrote:
grrr, didnt run the friggin spellCzeck.


You misspelled Czech . . .
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2008 08:40 am
Me, mispell words? dont be absird.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2008 10:20 am
baddog1 wrote:
farmerman wrote:
A scientists religious beleifs (or lack of ), has no bearing upon their work .
So baddogs question is as relevant as if hed asked about Hawking's political prefernce.



Right. And Richard Dawkins religious beliefs (or lack of) has no bearing upon his work either does it? Give us a break fm. Am very surprised to see you peddling that junk.


BD shows his colors here . . . one assumes he thinks that if Hawking, or Dawkins, or anyone else who is involved in science were a true, blue, god-fearing, bible-thumping christian, they'd never for a moment pursue any line of inquiry which would throw into doubt or disrepute the bobble cosmogony.

Kind of a reductio ad dimwittus argument . . .
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2008 10:51 am
Setanta wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
farmerman wrote:
A scientists religious beleifs (or lack of ), has no bearing upon their work .
So baddogs question is as relevant as if hed asked about Hawking's political prefernce.



Right. And Richard Dawkins religious beliefs (or lack of) has no bearing upon his work either does it? Give us a break fm. Am very surprised to see you peddling that junk.


BD shows his colors here . . . one assumes he thinks that if Hawking, or Dawkins, or anyone else who is involved in science were a true, blue, god-fearing, bible-thumping christian, they'd never for a moment pursue any line of inquiry which would throw into doubt or disrepute the bobble cosmogony.

Kind of a reductio ad dimwittus argument . . .


Strawman fallacy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2008 11:09 am
Not at all . . . i said "one assumes," i did not assert this to be the case. But you never were very clear on the meaning and appropriate application of fallacies.

I was speculating, because you did not make your meaning clear (no surprises there). Just how was FM "peddling junk," if you are not asserting that Dawkins' religious beliefs, or lack of them, lead him to study aspects of science which cast doubt on the biblical cosmogony?
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Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jun, 2008 08:02 pm
Well we can't let baddog1 entertain his fallacious fantasies for too long, can we?

"God" has been referred to by physicists as a placeholder for grande order, something beyond, etc, for quite some time. Einstein often referenced God in this way, despite having no belief in anything the huge majority of theists would recognize.

It seems to be the same for Hawking. Let's check out WikiQuote:
Quote:
If we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God.

Last lines. Hawking later wrote: "In the proof stage I nearly cut the last sentence in the book... Had I done so, the sales might have been halved. Black Holes and Baby Universes and Other Essays (1993)


So we have a little implication of his views there. Here's a nice little essay by Antony Flew.

Frankly, Stephen Hawking doesn't seem to have been plain about his views on the subject, although when he isn't referencing God in cases where it clearly fits the context for the agnostic cosmologist's version (the one I referenced earlier), he doesn't speak exactly like any kind of believer. At one point he speaks of one's ability to define "God" as the origin of the universe, in precisely those general of terms.

If you're not skeptical enough yet, read this space.com article on Stephen Hawkings statements concerning the last pope's views.

From what I can tell, Hawking is an agnostic. His wife is quite devout and likely the most important thing in his life, and I believe he has deliberately attempted to keep his personal specific views in print and public statement those of an agnostic. I'll wrap it up with this quote:
Quote:
I thought I had left the question of the existence of a Supreme Being open in my article. It would be perfectly consistent with all we know to say that there was a Being who was responsible for the laws of physics. However, I think it could be misleading to call such a Being 'God,' because this term is normally understood to have personal connotations which are not present in the laws of physics. (Hawking, "The Edge of Space-Time", American Scientist 72, (1989): 355-359 (I stole it from a book on Einstein by Max Jammer)
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 06:56 am
Wikipedia seems to have him down as a non-Platonist atheist, whatever that means. Whether that is believable or not, is another question.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jun, 2008 09:26 am
Shirakawasuna, you missed some of the play-by-play here. BD switched from Hawking to Richard Dawkins, who is a much more attractive target for the bible-thumpers. He has a habit of telling the idiotic wankers that they are all idiotic wankers.

BD wants to associate scientists and atheists in the minds of the unwary reader. He said that FM was peddling junk, and immediately introduced the subject of Richard Dawkins, one assumes as "proof" that scientists do not separate science from their religious beliefs, or lack thereof. Of course, no one had mentioned Dawkins previous to that foray on BD's part, but that hardly matters to him, he's got propaganda to disseminate.

However, i wrote "one assumes" in my response to his idiocy, and in this post, because, as usual, BD doesn't make clear what he means, or claims to mean.

FM wrote:
A scientists religious beleifs (or lack of ), has no bearing upon their work .


BD claimed he was "peddling junk" when he wrote that, and trotted out Dawkins as an example.

However, logic never was BD's strong suit. To make his case that Dawkins' religious beliefs or lack thereof had any bearing upon his work as a scientist, he would have to show that Dawkins work were flawed as a result of prejudice, or that he only pursued his work because of his religious belief or lack thereof.

To BD, my response was a strawman, because the logical inference of what he had written never occured to him, even after he had writtn it.
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