NOAH"S FLOOD MAY HAVE BEEN A MEGATSUNAMI

Whiston's comet was it fm?

I told you that. It's in Sterne.

And myths grow up about things of that nature. The poets get to work on them.

Never underestimate a myth.

Try to deconstruct it.

However, just because you say something doesnt make it so. Hint:not a comet.

Very interesting, Gin'ril . . . the possible flood event of the Med breaking through to the Black Sea basin had previously been the favored candidate, but this one would have been a whopper . . . i'll be interested to see what comes of this, so keep us informed, 'K?

yup. The whole big "dune dust up" is about whether these chevron dunes are really accurate indicators of water flow or not. Some of the damn things are over 250 ft high and seem to have blown right through Suez country. The interesting fact is that these chevron dunes, like the tsunami piles from the 2004 Banda AChe tsunami contained large amounts of carbon detritus that yield almost simultaneous dates for C14, and why not? a tsunami can wrek its damage in one day so it oughta leave a really good date track for all the "outcrops of dunes".

The Black Sea , post Pleistocene " meltwater breakout " is a real thing but may have been a bit too early to be the Noah flood. ANyway, even if the Black Sea event were much earlier than Flood myths, it probably still provided some genetic memory of Bigass floods, and could be responsible for the founding of the Sumerian ARmy Corps of Engineers.

Them boys ran around in ankle-length skirts, with long beards and shaved heads . . . i think they was all hippies . . . or gay . . . or both. No wonder the Assyrians made minced meat outta them boys . . .

That's cool!

I researched the whole flood myth thing thoroughly in college -- it's pretty much completely universal, not just centered in that area. (i.e. American Indians, Africans, Asians, etc.) There was some speculation that it has to do with the universal human experience of birth -- amniotic fluid, etc. Jung talked about this a bit I think. I don't remember details.

But this is very cool.

Something that all civilizations that have flood myths, have in common is, WATER. The Natches, Creek, Wabanakis, and Ojibwa have flood myths while the NAvajo do not have one that is a core myth. They have a flood story about the levels of the world and the insect people. SO is the Hopi and Apache myth. The same thing of tribes along the MEd and Indian Oceans. However, youre right that lood myths , when spread about, have about 2 distinct lesson plans.
1They involve a pissed off god

2They have some story of hope or rising above


The origins of many myths , even the Scylla and Charibdis myths have some basis in a natural phenomenon or two.

A ripping yarn can serve as the core of a morality as EO Wilson said in hisBiological Basis of Morality

I never heard the "Amniotic fluid" origin.

It's about the "black hole" Jung places at the centre of the Collective Unconscious surrounded by the concentric circles of consciousness and what they call the "Primal Scene".

Original sin some call it fm. At least it's shorter.

* Are you softening your position? It's not like you to quote that remark by Mr Wilson.

The claim that all cultures have a flood myth puts one on shaky ground, however. For example, many of the "flood myths" of Amerindians are in fact, creation myths, often involving one "character" or another piling up mud in an inferential universal sea to make the land upon which creatures will live. Referring to "flood myths" in the valley of the Nile, or the valley of the Indus, or Yangtze or Yellow Rivers is also disingenuous, since people who lived in those regions looked forward to the annual flooding of those rivers to either water parched ground, or to fill their rice paddies or their banked wheat fields. The Yellow River, in fact, flows from rice country into wheat country and back again, and many of the ethnic groups who eventually became the Chinese had their own particular flood stories.

The shaky ground upon which one finds oneself comes from the fundamentalist bible-thumpers, who are only too happy to allege that all flood myths are equal, and all refer to the universal Noahic flood. Because they claim that the bobble is divinely-inspired and inerrant, they willfully ignore all the evidence to the contrary, and claim that the Hebrew account is the earlier, correct account, and that the account found in Babylonian tablets is a later, corrupted account. However, there is a wealth of evidence, some in the form of fragments of the flood story from Gilgamesh, and some inferential from the language used, and place names and personal names in those fragments, that places the flood story not only farther back than a time when anyone can allege the Hebrews were literate, but farther back than the biblical literalists themselves claim as the time when the flood took place.

To them, it seems that a claim for universal flood myths just supports their biblical literalism. But they are obliged to ignore great differences in the content of accounts, such as those which are not actually flood myths, but cosmogonies in which land rises or is willfully raised from beneath the surface of an inferentially universal sea or lake.

Even were there universal flood myths which were close to, or exactly like the Noahic account, it would not change the fact that the similarities would not be evidence for the same event--correlation is not causation, nor is a superficial correlation a sound basis for assuming that one speaks of the same event. So, someone might overhear two people talking about a strong-arm robbery, and herself might have seen a slight acquaintance attempting the strong-arm robbery of another person, and chime into the overheard conversation with: "Hey, i know that guy." Just as there can be more than one strong-arm robber in the world, there can have been more than one flood event vivid enough to have imposed itself on a cultural consciousness.

It is useful to remember that these are the same folks who allege that all geological formations on earth have at one time or another been underwater (the evidence is not entirely convincing), from which they reason that all geological formations were under water at the same time and that the time in question was the time of the Noahic flood.

This page at Talk Origins lists a great many of the allegedly "universal" flood myths. James Frazer, author of The Golden Bough, an unparalleled investigation of mythologies, is the source for many of them.

spendi

I think you have me confused with someone else. Ive consistently quoted E O Wilson as a "cool head" of the criticizm of ID. Hes a lot more civil in his discourse, unlike Dawkins, who takes no prisoners.

MAybe you have E O Wilson confused with another Wilson?

SET , thatnks for posting that list of sites and the compilation of the creation /flood myths.

Im not as concerned about the various strategies used by Creationists (even the conferring of MS degrees in "Creation SCience"). These attempts will all ultimately fail because they are backed by nothing testable, or with any predicable bases. Its a huge chink in their armor. All they have is an untrue version of interpretation of scientific data, and a Big Book of campfire stories.
I realize that, in the meantime, they can cause major disruption of our schools, but, in a system of government as ours, Im more satisfied at how the process works itself out while still allowing all beliefs to exist. It womnt be worked out in courts, I has to be enculturated . The challenges that Creationism and ID present against good scientific evidence, actually hones our theories based upon harder and harder evidence.

Actually , finding the myth basis for ANY flood myth doesnt help the Genesis believers, it documents and links their myths to the full spectrum of scientific data.

For example, our ability to date the Burckle tsunami flotsam agrees with their time schedule of a Flood. However, all the flood evidence seems to stop short of "Worldwide" and further, it proves that the earth itself is much older than 6000 yBP.

Tsunami? Nah. That would have allowed Noah's team no time to get the boat built, never mind rounding up the animals.

That must have taken AGES.

Immanuel Velikovsky, he was a popular author in the 1960s, with Worlds in Collision and Ages in Chaos. I like that stuff.

Oh yeah? The question is, do you believe that stuff?

If so, perhaps i could interest you in a ve-ery profitable bridge . . .

It wasn't the name fm. I had never heard of him.

It was the quote-



An argument I have used to justify retaining the Bible and what it has influenced. Ryder Haggard stories are ripping yarns for young lads and morality tales for good readers. And plenty of other stuff but all loosely based on Bible sources.

Names are just labels. A monkey could have knocked it out at random for all I care.

Who cares if Dawkins "takes no prisoners". Anybody can talk like that. You can learn it off movie scripts.

Mac- early on in this short thread the possibility of the asteroid been seen coming was raised. It's even possible that Whiston's comet was unseen and coinciding in time with a comet that was seen which passed off as they do. "Possible", in the sense that it can't be ruled out, is the operative word. Ruling out a Flood is ridiculous.

thats weird, global flood myths?


i always thought the flood myths were only on the european and asian continents


didnt know the americas had them as well.


how does that figure into the myth of the global flood caused by god? are they on different timeframes or what?

the bible flood.