Einstein: Nothing 'chosen' about the Jews

One can be Jewish, and still might not have a clue about being Jewish. It all has to do with what degree of Jewishness one is raised in. And, it has to do with how one analyzes the topic. Some people do not really analyze their ethnicity. Some people even live outside of ethnic identities, so they might virtually become another ethnic identity.

And, I am not "speaking for the Jews." I was speaking for my own opinion; take it, or leave it.

Anyway, in my own mind I have only "minored" (not in a real curriculum) in "Jews." I have "majored" in "NYC ethnicities of the 1950's/1960's." Jews are only a subset.

If you want to know if I am Jewish, then you should have just asked. But then again, the easy way to discern that is just to ask me if I can pronounce "Channukah" correctly.

Regardless, I am busy developing a theory to meld Einstein's Theory of Relativity and the WASP image. I suspect that the space time continuum interacts with "WASP confidence" in a very esoteric mannner.

But actually, I believe, your premise about needing to be a particular ethnicity to truly understand it, is an incorrect premise. That premise means one can only understand the thoughts of a "victim" if one is part of that victim's group; and if one is part of a victim's group, one can then not understand the thoughts of the perpetrators against a victim. This premise totally invalidates many social sciences. False conclusion, I believe; it stems I believe from a "popular notion."

And, where did you get the idea that intelligence is not inherited?

Foofie wrote:

And, where did you get the idea that intelligence is not inherited?

Where did you get the idea that it can be?

... I'm pointing out, out of experience, when I make a sweeping statement about a religion or an ethnic group then I am accountable for the statement-- especially if I am not a member of their tribe.

As for your opinion, it's all yours.

There is a world of difference between being an expert but not being of that origin and coming from that particular gene pool.

Victimhood? That's your agenda.

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Foofie wrote:

And, where did you get the idea that intelligence is not inherited?

Where did you get the idea that it can be?

My readings over the years. Sure, nurture has an effect; however, nature does play a role. I believe a bigger role than people would like to admit. But, possibly running counter to using one's intelligence may be the society one is raised in. It is a matrix of variables. But, I do not discount inherited intelligence.

Gala wrote:

... I'm pointing out, out of experience, when I make a sweeping statement about a religion or an ethnic group then I am accountable for the statement-- especially if I am not a member of their tribe.

As for your opinion, it's all yours.

There is a world of difference between being an expert but not being of that origin and coming from that particular gene pool.

Victimhood? That's your agenda.

Where is victimhood? But, anyway, I came into this thread sort of late; did you take issue with all the knowledge about Jews that was being shared, by others, before I made my post? I just (in the thread) thought I read a lot about Jews have done this, or won that prize. Nothing about why they might have. Being Jewish (secular) I think my opinion could have cleared the air a little from the squabbling Gentiles. And, Jews are not a tribe, except for religious purposes. I have more in common with many white Protestants than with most Jews when it comes to my value system and politics.

Until your "outing" as a Jew all I picked up from what you wrote about them was from reading, not experience or genetics.

I'm going to use different terms from you, because I'm beginning to see a flaw in the terms nature and nurture in the respect that most people use it. I will instead use genetic and environmental, partially because these are the terms scientists use when talking about certain traits.

All aspects of your body have a genetic component and an environmental component. Very few aspects are coded for by a single gene, hence they will have a larger environmental component.

There is no single gene for intelligence. All there are, are genes that code for the development of the brain and the differentiation of cells into the various cell-types you find in the brain. These interact with other genes, which in turn may be affected by environmental pressures. Overall, I'd say that intelligence is mostly environmental in cause and hence cannot be inherited. The only thing that can be inherited is the potential for intelligence, the potential to be as smart as your father or your mother.

I'd also like to point out that the spur of my latest argument against brahim would have been that if Jews aren't a race, then they are a group of people who share a cultural identity. Thing is, the list of Nobel laureates he posits is based on whether someone is descended from Jews or not. This would hence, include non-practising Jews and those who are only racially Jewish, if such a thing can be said. Hence, it is horribly inflated.

Why would a trait that requires more genes be more susceptible to the environment?

And, what if one has two dunces for parents?

So, rather than prove that Jews are not inherently intellectually superior, perhaps one needs to prove that the "Jewish culture" is not superior to the western Christian culture in producing achievement oriented people as a percentage of its population. In my own opinion, I have given some credence to the thought that Judaism, as a culture, overcame its own pagan past of glorifying brawn over brains, but I wonder whether it is correct to say that Christianity has really overcome the pagan culture its adherents came from. Meaning Chritianity is a success as a religion, having converted so many people, but has it supplanted the old pagan culture? I think of American football, when I ask this question.

What outing? I just said I was Jewish and secular. I didn't think it was essential to be identified as a Jew inorder to make my points have more or less credence. Should I have a yellow star as an avatar?

Well, certainly, if the Jews were such a chosen people, Israel would be producing most of the Nobel laureates, but it's not. Only Jews outside of Israel seem to do be doing this.

I don't know. You tell me. If two dunces can create a genius, then obviously, intelligence isn't inherited, which would undermine your argument.

Oh, by the way, when I refer to Jews, I am thinking of those people descended from Eastern European Jews that came to the U.S. between 1880 and 1905. One must have had an ancestor that lived on the Lower East Side in Manhattan.

Foofie wrote:

Oh, by the way, when I refer to Jews, I am thinking of those people descended from Eastern European Jews that came to the U.S. between 1880 and 1905. One must have had an ancestor that lived on the Lower East Side in Manhattan.

Which, surely, would drastically limit brahmin's list and thus prove his contention is rather facetious.

Out of interest, regarding the intelligence inheritance issue, is there anything specific you read concerning this matter? Twin studies, perhaps?

I don't believe at all that Jews are any brighter than other people, just that they are harder working maybe. Also, that they tend to concentrate in areas like medecine, science, etc. which may result in more of them being recognized in those fields.

It is because I don't think we should generalize because a few Jews are achievers to generalize that Jews are brighter. In every group of people, there are bright and less bright people. My observation regarding the areas of concentration comes from knowing a few Jewish students and hearing about them from university students, and also seeing how many doctors are Jewish compared to other doctors, proportionately.

Yes, I have asked myself why there are so many threads about Jews in this forum because I find it very strange. I think maybe because people are more interested to talk about them, for one reason or another which I don't know, than about the Chinese for example. When I looked at the Asia threads, there is only a short one covering the earthquakes in China which caused almost 70,000 deaths and rendered 1.4 million people homeless, making me wonder ...

I think higher intelligence is a positive trait, but employers/schools nowadays look for more than that. They look for well-rounded people. And believe me, I know many highly intelligent kids and they are not Jews. As you say, it is not everyone who lives in contact with the Jews. But Jews are only a small part of the whole community in which we, at least I, live. Maybe where you live people behave differently to Jews, but I find that in Canada, there is no bias, positive or negative, towards them. They are Canadians like we all are.