0
   

Austrian hid daughter 24 y in cellar, fathered 7 children

 
 
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 11:42 am
A 73-year-old Austrian man is in police custody after his daughter accused him of keeping her captive in a cellar for 24 years.

She has also accused her father of sexually abusing her throughout that period.

The woman - now 42 - gave birth to seven children during her ordeal.

Video @ reuters
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,465 • Replies: 27
No top replies

 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 11:43 am
Daily Mail:

Quote:
A 73-year-old Austrian man has been arrested on suspicion of holding his daughter hostage in a cellar for 24 years and fathering seven children with her.


The arrested man was named by police as Josef F and his daughter as 42-year-old Elisabeth F, who had been "missing" since 1984.

The case came to light after Elisabeth F's eldest child fell ill and had to be taken to hospital and doctors appealed for the mother to come forward.


Police said Elisabeth F told authorities her father had abused her since she was 11, had lured her into the basement of the block where the family lived in Amstetten in 1984.

She said he had drugged and handcuffed her before locking her up in a windowless dungeon.

It was assumed she had disappeared voluntarily when her parents received a letter from her saying they should not search for her.

Elisabeth gave birth to seven children, one of whom died shortly after being born, police said.

They said three of her younger children were each left in the house, the first accompanied by a letter saying Elisabeth was unable to care for the baby herself. All were taken in by Josef and his wife as foster or adopted children.

"She had been abused continuously during the 24-year-long imprisonment," the police statement said.

The two oldest children, aged 18 and 19, as well as the youngest aged 5, had been locked up with their mother since birth and had never seen sunlight or received any education, police said.

"A 19-year-old girl was dropped off at the Amstetten hospital last weekend, she is seriously ill and is fighting for her life," a police spokesman said.

Doctors appealed for girl's mother to come forward to provide more details about the daughter's medical history.

Josef then brought Elisabeth and her remaining two children out of the dungeon, telling his wife that their "missing" daughter had chosen to return home.

After questioning and assurances that she would have no further contact with her father, Elisabeth agreed to make a "comprehensive statement".

Rosemarie, as well as Elisabeth and her children were receiving psychological counselling.

DNA samples of all those involved were taken and would be analysed to determine who the father of the children was, police added.

Police said Josef was in custody but refused to speak about the allegations. His wife Rosemarie had been unaware of what had happened.

The case is reminiscent of that of Natascha Kampusch, who spent eight years locked up in a windowless cell beneath 44-year-old Woldgang Priklopil's garage in the town of Strasshof, 15 miles outside Vienna, before dashing to freedom in August 2006.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 11:47 am
The wife knew.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Apr, 2008 11:49 am
How could his wife, Rosemary, be so oblivious to all that?
Incomprehensible to me!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 12:14 am
Story in today's The Guardian:

Horror in a cellar: woman tells of 24 years of imprisonment and rape by her father

Quote:
Police said Elizabeth's mother was not suspected of involvement, having accepted that her daughter had run away. "As far as we've been able to ascertain, the wife of the accused had no contact with the 42-year-old woman and the other children," a local council official, Heinz Lenze said. The mother was also receiving counselling.

One neighbour said Josef had been "inconspicuous" and "always greeted us in a friendly way." Another said she had often seen Rosemarie with her grandchildren. "She is really very nice, taking the grandchildren to school -but we knew nothing of what was really going on."



And from the BBC: Timeline: Austrian cellar case
0 Replies
 
Bohne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 04:40 am
It has been all over the radio news, yesterday!
But I still cannot come to accept that this is real!

HOW crazy can one man be???
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 04:46 am
It's really hard to accept.
But it's not only the question how crazy men can be, IMHO.

How can the children live on in future?
How their mother?

And what about the family, neighbours, officials etc ?
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 04:51 am
This is such a horror.

4 people, 3 of whom had never seen the world, living in a basement.

A woman giving birth multiple times, alone in that hell hole.

I absolutely do not believe the wife was unaware of any of this. Many times, children are molested by their father, and the mother choose to turn a blind eye, or even blame the child for this. Multiple babies just appearing on the doorstep?

During all the counseling the wife receives, I'm confident something will finally come out.

She knew. Keeping her husband was just more important than her children.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 04:59 am
I cannot believe that no one knew. This guy was siring a large family, who needed food, clothing, etc. Can anyone say that no one noticed all these years? How were all these kids supported?

This story has more holes in it than a hunk of Swiss cheese. I hope that one day the police learn the truth, and bring those involved to justice!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 05:02 am
The mother was probably of the mentality of many an abuse victim. Meekly followed along the same way they do, through weakness of character, fear to change the situation for whatever reason, something of that order.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 05:56 am
edgarblythe wrote:
The mother was probably of the mentality of many an abuse victim. Meekly followed along the same way they do, through weakness of character, fear to change the situation for whatever reason, something of that order.



My thoughts exactly.

This man chose his wife well. What other type of woman could he possibly have been married to?

However, that does not exempt her from guilt if they do discover she was in any way, even for an instant, aware.


This daughter was being sexually abused for 7 years before he locked her up.

He was 72 years old, and the only person who knew the code to the door.

He dies, they all starve.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 07:38 am
This suns up what is - by now - known (nothing more in any Austrian/German news):
Quote:
Now it seems the story was a massive, sophisticated deception, which went undiscovered for over two decades. Neither the man's wife, the rest of his family, nor his next-door neighbors -- much less the relevant local officials -- knew a thing. Supposedly.
Source
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 07:46 am
Then the usually cool and calculated perpetrator made a mistake. Elisabeth persuaded Josef Fritzl to take her to the hospital. On the way there a police patrol stopped them and arrested the pensioner after receiving an anonymous tip-off. It would seem that there was indeed someone who knew what was going on -- someone who had kept quiet all these years. Apparently the web of lies that he had spun in Amstetten was not as perfect as it seemed.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 02:28 pm
I read that when the grand daughter was taken to the hospital, the daughter managed to slip a note into her pocket, and it was found.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 02:59 pm
Grandmother, mother and the five children are in hopsital, all since April 26/27 (= two nights and two days).
The 19-year old is there since April 19, on intensive care, in artificial coma. Accoding to the doctors, no serious diagnosis can be done since her clinical picture is still unclear.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 12:51 pm
Some updates on the condition of the children....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1920005/Austria-Fritzl's-dungeon-child-'likely-to-die'.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 11:56 pm
In today's The Guardian, it's hypocrisy


http://i30.tinypic.com/2nreamp.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 11:56 pm
Quote:
Ever since the story came to light of how Josef Fritzl imprisoned his daughter for 24 years in a dungeon below the family home in Austria, fathering seven children with her through continuous sexual abuse, commentators have been falling over themselves to find an explanation for his crimes in the country's history, culture or national psyche.

"There is something rotten at the heart of Austria ... a poisonous past," declared Tony Parsons in the Mirror. "A monster like Fritzl could only exist in a country like that." India Knight said in the Sunday Times: "Austria seems to specialise in a particularly vile, furtive, freakishly awful kind of abuse." In the Daily Mail, Peter Millar announced: "The whole of modern Austria is in denial about its recent past; its national identity has been founded on a tissue of lies and wishful thinking."

So now we know: Austria is not all Julie Andrews and sachertorte. Beneath the snow-capped alpine peaks and the whipped cream on mugs of hot chocolate, there is a darker Austria. It is a sick society, in which acts of almost unimaginable depravity go unnoticed because of a so-called "look-away" culture. It is a place where social responsibility is so minimal that neighbours will call the authorities to complain about next door's noise rather than confront the troublemaker face to face. It is a country where racism, particularly towards foreign workers, is rife. It is a country that has never recovered from losing its empire. If only Freud were around today, he would have something to say about the national psyche. And it wouldn't make those on the receiving end feel good about themselves.

There's only one problem with such analyses: the last six sentences of the previous paragraph could easily have been written about another post-imperial, socially cowardly, often racist society - namely ours. In many respects, Britain is not so dissimilar from Austria. You could make a compelling case for the view that what Fred West did in his Gloucester cellar finds its parallel in what Fritzl did in his Amstetten basement. But in West's case we, rightly, don't consider that his crimes are explicable because of a national malaise. We should think more carefully before we indict a nation on the basis of one crime, or try to stereotype 8 million people on the basis of a particularly extraordinary story of incestuous imprisonment.

You could argue that Britain is very different from Austria. We have never had a former Nazi as a postwar head of state. Hitler grew up in Linz, not Leicester. London, not Vienna, is a place where people of colour flourish. And consider all that decadent fin-de-siècle Viennese culture: Robert Musil's neurotic novel A Man Without Qualities, Otto Weininger's misogynistic, antisemitic and self-hating Sex and Character, the atonalism of the second Vienna school, all those morbid Schiele canvases. Didn't Freud make a comfortable living analysing the neurotics and psychotics of Vienna? Isn't Kafka's mad genius unthinkable without the neuroses of the Habsburg empire's bureaucracy and repression? Weren't Austrians a dodgy bunch even before the Anschluss turned them into Nazis?

It's tempting to stereotype a nation thus. Before the Fritzl story broke, I was in Vienna, interviewing the Russian soprano Anna Netrebko. I stepped into the Leopold museum to look at some great Austrian art. An hour later, I came out suffocated by the sickly green nudes, the ugly neuroses on canvas. I hated what I'd seen and saw it as providing a clue to what the country was like. Only one problem with my reflex thought: the Vienna outside was a very different one from the ailing, self-loathing, unhealthy art I'd seen inside. It was a civilised, perhaps somewhat too clean, city filled with sophisticated people who loved art, architecture, literature and decent coffee with their cake, who were temperamentally incapable of the vulgarity so common on London streets.

Was I deluded by the cool, mittel-European surfaces of the Austrian capital? Should I consider what lies beneath, the grubby secrets that rise to the surface from Austrian basements? Vienna isn't Austria, just as London isn't Britain, Berlin isn't Germany and New York isn't the US. And surely the fact that three similar crimes have come to light in Austria in the past two years shows that this country is particularly sick?

On Newsnight, Natascha Kampusch, who was held for eight years by her Austrian captor in a basement cell, gave an interview in which she expressed her views on the latest abuse scandal. "I think it can happen everywhere and it also exists everywhere, not just in Austria," she said. Which, to my mind, is a truth insufficiently acknowledged right now. But then she added something else, which pulled her argument in the opposite direction, into the realms of implausible speculation. "I think this exists worldwide, but I think it's also a ramification of the second world war and its connection to education and so on," she said, adding: "At the time of national socialism, the suppression of women was propagated. An authoritarian education was very important."

Yet even these remarks are hopeless in trying to convince me of the thesis that Austria is a nation more disposed to these kinds of crimes than others. The suppression of women under national socialism finds its parallel and worse in other countries and other regimes where no cases like Fritzl's have taken place.

Did nazism affect the souls of Austrians? Writing in the Daily Mail, veteran foreign correspondent David Jones argues: "As anyone who remembers the plot to The Sound Of Music will recall, during the late 30s and 40s, Austrian society was riven with fear and mistrust, as some connived with the annexing Nazis and others (like the film's defiant naval captain Georg von Trapp) sought to remain free of their malign influence. The Germans encouraged collaborators to spy on their neighbours and report any dissent, and - much as the Austrians now dislike admitting it - this has produced the sort of insular mentality which underpins its towns and villages to this day."

Such speculation is easy to unleash, but difficult to sustain. If Austria is prone to this insular mentality, why have not similar crimes taken place in other countries where collaborators have been encouraged to spy on their neighbours? Why does Fritzl come from Austria rather than, say, Ukraine or East Germany?

What, though, is striking, especially to a Briton like me, is how Austrians have spiralled down into a mood of harrowing and unremitting self-examination unimaginable here. I sometimes think, because we won the second world war, we have never had to develop the self-critical faculty that the losers did. If we had murdered millions of Jews, we might have had to do so. But we didn't, so we needn't. Such complacency is as much part of British national identity as inedible cucumber sandwiches. By contrast, a self-critical national faculty is common among Germans and Austrians, certainly those born since 1945.

Among Austrians, that faculty is being, understandably, overworked. The Austrian daily newspaper Der Standard published an article saying, "The whole community must ask itself what is really fundamentally going on." Another daily, ?-sterreich, had an editorial saying: "The whole of Amstetten should drown in shame. The neighbours have turned a blind eye."

One of the extraordinary things about the case is how Fritzl seems to have done what he did without his neighbours realising. (Incidentally, it is a big moral step from not realising something to what ?-sterreich alleges; namely that Fritzl's neighbours turned a blind eye. The latter point, at least, remains to be proven.) But this national mood is misplaced if it is used to whip a nation for a crime for which it is not, and cannot be, responsible. The "look away" culture that allowed Fritzl to father seven children with his daughter in his basement and to keep many of that family hidden in that subterranean hell is not just an Austrian one. It is one that is endemic to socially mobile western societies. It is one of the prices of how capitalism works.

In any event, what shocks a nation does not mean that a national psyche is relevant in understanding why a crime happened. No nation is devoid of a foul history. You think Austria's past is more shameful than Britain's? Go tell that to the Kenyans who were incarceration in British concentration camps. Go tell that to the Kurds whom Churchill decided should be tear-gassed because they were "uncivilised". If you think Turkish Gastarbeiter are treated badly, consider the peevish record of British treatment of immigrants since the second world war. Read Andrea Levy's Small Island just to get a sense of how lovely our indigenous population was to outsiders. When I interviewed the Austrian-born historian Jörg Friedrich a couple of years ago about his book on the allied bombing of German cities, he told me Britons were incapable of taking responsibility for national crimes they had committed precisely because they had won the war. I think he is right: we are in no position to lecture Austrians, even though we do so almost as a reflex. We are in a worse position than them: as a nation, we want to lecture, but we do not have the temperament to listen to foreigners' criticisms. We haven't properly developed the self-critical muscle.

When I interviewed the author Philip Pullman earlier this week, he told me of driving around Austria, ardently looking for a front garden that wasn't pristine. There is something unbearable about Austria, something repressed, neat, sickeningly suburban. He didn't, sensibly, draw any conclusions from this, but for the fact that he didn't like it very much. His taste differed from that prevalent in Austrian front gardens. Sensibly, that was as far as he was prepared to go. Similarly, to impute any sinister, criminal significance to the nature of Austrian society is a mistake, and one that British writers - so often failing to examine their prejudices and our own subconscious impulses - commit. If there is a national mood of self-disgust sweeping Austria, it is one that we might do well to learn from.
0 Replies
 
Bohne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 02:17 am
What a load of ****

[quote]There is something rotten at the heart of Austria ... a poisonous past[/quote]
[quote]A monster like Fritzl could only exist in a country like that[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that this has been voiced anywhere else apart from in a pub after quite a few beers!
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 04:52 am
Bohne wrote:
What a load of ****

[quote]There is something rotten at the heart of Austria ... a poisonous past

Quote:
A monster like Fritzl could only exist in a country like that


I find it hard to believe that this has been voiced anywhere else apart from in a pub after quite a few beers![/color][/quote]

Yeah, stuff like this never happens in America. We just have old men who marry fourteen year old girls and continue to have sex with their offspring. In America it's considered a form of religion.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Austrian hid daughter 24 y in cellar, fathered 7 children
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 03/05/2026 at 12:24:55