Spiritual Care

I came across this job opening.

Given that Canada has a socialized, taxpayer sponsored medical system, and given the expectation of the separation of church and state, and given that Langley Memorial Hospital is not a religious organization I consider the position of "Coordinator, Spiritual Care" to be controversial.

http://careers.fraserhealth.ca/vacancies.asp?action=details&id=42373

My Canadian tax payer dollars, as earmarked for medical-science-based socialized services, should not go to the pandering of superstitions!

If I was to look at is "a psychiatrist who specializes in using psychological behaviors to augment physiological results" then where is the empirically based evidence to demonstrate prayer's efficacy.

Or as Voltaire once said, "Medicine is the art of distracting the patient while nature cures the problem."

Or maybe I did, but was drunk at the time.

Chumly wrote:

If I was to look at is "a psychiatrist who specializes in using psychological behaviors to augment physiological results" then where is the empirically based evidence to demonstrate prayer's efficacy.

I hate to say it, but the job post doesn't ask the spiritual coordinator to pray for anyone. It only asks them to assist patients in arranging for their own spiritual support systems. Unfortunately, a lot of people really need that. They feel alone without it as much as most people feel alone without family, and their health will deteriorate without it.

rosborne979 wrote:

Chumly wrote:

If I was to look at is "a psychiatrist who specializes in using psychological behaviors to augment physiological results" then where is the empirically based evidence to demonstrate prayer's efficacy.

I hate to say it, but the job post doesn't ask the spiritual coordinator to pray for anyone. It only asks them to assist patients in arranging for their own spiritual support systems. Unfortunately, a lot of people really need that. They feel alone without it as much as most people feel alone without family, and their health will deteriorate without it.

I challenge you to show the empirically-based, scientific studies, that demonstrate supporting superstitions improve health on the basis of cost versus efficacy, as opposed to (for example) spending said "Spiritual Care" funds on treating more patients via basic medical procedures.

Again, in the context of modern medical science, and my Canadian tax payer sponsored heath care system I argue that superstitions should play no part.

Amusing point: why should I (if I was hospitalized) not receive the spiritual support I "need" if it falls outside of societal normativeness?

Understand I am not for or against any patient looking to superstitions for comfort, but it should not be at the expense of my Canadian tax payer dollars, and thus at the expense of basic medical procedures.

It might be of interest to know that Canada is in the midst of a socialized heath care "crisis" due to funding and staffing shortfalls etc - or so the popular media would have one believe!

You can do a Google search for yourself and find several thousand articles on the medical benefits of reducing stress levels of patients in a hospital environment. And you can also find several hunderd thousand articles on the relationship between religious beliefs/practices and people's stress levels. Is it safe to assume you can put 2+2 together there?

Then you should shut up and quit arguing because that is nothing more than your own personal superstition - which, according to your own words, shouldn't play any part in this.

Well, ya know, if the hospital has a spiritual coordinator it would be their job to assist you. But since you don't believe in them you'd be out of luck...

A wholly empty response. Go ahead and show me, in the specific context given as per: I challenge you to show the empirically-based, scientific studies, that demonstrate supporting superstitions improve health on the basis of cost versus efficacy, as opposed to (for example) spending said "Spiritual Care" funds on treating more patients via basic medical procedures.
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Chumly wrote:

Understand I am not for or against any patient looking to superstitions for comfort, but it should not be at the expense of my Canadian tax payer dollars, and thus at the expense of basic medical procedures.

It might be of interest to know that Canada is in the midst of a socialized heath care "crisis" due to funding and staffing shortfalls etc - or so the popular media would have one believe!

You have it ass backwards. Medical care is very expensive, one or two people being paid as spiritual facilitators is relatively cheap. They don't need to lessen very many hospital days or procedures in order to pay for their keep. Also, patients who leave feeling that the hospital looked after their best interests are less likely to think poorly of their care givers (IE, are less likely to take to the courts). On pragmatic self interest grounds you should be cheering this wise strategy of your hospital admins, even if you think that the spiritual stuff is all a lot of nonsense.

Chumly wrote:

A wholly empty response. Go ahead and show me, in the specific context given as per: I challenge you to show the empirically-based, scientific studies, that demonstrate supporting superstitions improve health on the basis of cost versus efficacy, as opposed to (for example) spending said "Spiritual Care" funds on treating more patients via basic medical procedures.
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No need.... hospital admins are under enormous pressure to operate as low cost as possible, these professionals have decided that having spiritual facilitators is a wise move, therefor we know that in their expert opinion having facilitators is economically efficient.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Chumly wrote:

A wholly empty response. Go ahead and show me, in the specific context given as per: I challenge you to show the empirically-based, scientific studies, that demonstrate supporting superstitions improve health on the basis of cost versus efficacy, as opposed to (for example) spending said "Spiritual Care" funds on treating more patients via basic medical procedures.
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No need.... hospital admins are under enormous pressure to operate as low cost as possible, these professionals have decided that having spiritual facilitators is a wise move, therefor we know that in their expert opinion having facilitators is economically efficient.

Nope, sorry that is simply the logical fallacy called Appeal To Authority.

I suggest you review both logical fallacies and argumentation theory if you intend to provide a lucid response.

Chumly wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

Chumly wrote:

A wholly empty response. Go ahead and show me, in the specific context given as per: I challenge you to show the empirically-based, scientific studies, that demonstrate supporting superstitions improve health on the basis of cost versus efficacy, as opposed to (for example) spending said "Spiritual Care" funds on treating more patients via basic medical procedures.
.

No need.... hospital admins are under enormous pressure to operate as low cost as possible, these professionals have decided that having spiritual facilitators is a wise move, therefor we know that in their expert opinion having facilitators is economically efficient.

Nope, sorry that is simply the logical fallacy called Appeal To Authority.

Your argument however is that the experts are idiots. I like mine better.

Based on your underlying argument that making people feel good is a net health benefit in the context of tax payer sponsored public heath care is not an argument in and of itself that the position of "Coordinator, Spiritual Care" is money well spent.

Example: balloons and flowers may well be much cheaper and more effective.
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You have yet to demonstrate that a position as a "spiritual coordinator" has anything to do with church/state seperation.