Bashers; What's In It For You?

I came in late, and so have not read all of the responses. For me, it is not so much bashing Christians, as responding self defensively to fundamentalists. [Sometimes, those who bill themselves as agnostic wake in me a bit of antagonism. For instance, I love Frank Apisa like a brother. But, when he bashes atheists equally with Christians, I answer the call to do combat (Not really, in his case, anymore. I have had my say with Frank and intend to let him alone in future).] Many Christians live a gentle life, and they hurt no one, personally, but they willingly support policies hurtful to whole groups of people, simply because they believe the Bible makes it necessary. Gays, for instance. My wife, and most people I associate with are Christian, and I rarely argue religion with any of them. This board is for communicating in a way rarely possible in real life. I would not want it other than as it is now.

I wouldn't say its bashing, most of the time it is expressing views and arguing our beliefs. These forums are about debate.

Well, hey. For anyone who sticks around at a2k, the question is how to argue well.

In the meantime, many of us, though not all, who have opposite or nuanced views can engage.

Bashing is easy peasy on any side. Logical argument isn't all so easy. I am still watching those who are good at it from whatever point of view.

"Christian bashing" bloody hell we are back to the "Why persecute me" crap, and the "Don't throw me to the lions" drivel, maybe just maybe nobody is persecuting or bashing you just stating their point of view which may differ from yours, or just pointing out that you are talking crap, or maybe the numerous and obvious contradictions that the bible holds within its walls are being asked for reasonable explanations cause possible the non-religious want an explanation or brilliant idea that may draw them back into the fold.

Christians got persecuted for a few hundred years then for the next 1000 or so they did the persecuting in style. I would say many millions have met the hand of fate with the forgiving christian sword..... So yous must explain these strange unreligious activities and defend them.....

"So what do you call an argument between two christians with different viewpoints on the magical talking biblical book? is that also "christian bashing". Grow up..... its called debate, so stop crying and defend your faith.....

Exactly it is the christians who do the persecuting. They were the ones who killed Joan of Arc!!!!!!!
And I would say that atheism is a minority and the atheists are being persecuted by the gigantic delusional christian monster this is especially true in america where everyone is a delusional christian, they constantly attack and ridicule atheists. I don't think you will ever see a non-christian american president of America.

Sorry for the bashing but sometimes it just comes out.

To answer the question as it was put - that is as opposed to saying why to get down on religion short of bashing, or why it pisses people off, that it might not always be a great thing - why to bash religion? The joy of effective cruelty quite frankly - is that so hard to understand? I mean, I hate the idea of killing deer - other people do it, I don't own the deer, conservation occurs, fine by me - but the thought of if I were to shoot one, having myself interfered with this part of nature doing it's thing for no reason that really matters to me - I could make myself sad and nauseous by dwelling on it. But when someone's doing alright, like collecting up money, selling immortality, acting like everything under the sun is proof they're right in their colorful, self-righteous superstitions, people talking philosophy that ain't all that clever or making that much of a concerted effort to get it right to start with - to start **** about it is to sharpen ones claws and restore natural order - gives one a sense of accomplishment and well-being, like how cats just relish the act of chasing bugs. I'm not saying I'd get into it about just anything, where the line gets drawn varies on an atheist-to-atheist basis, don't like to be small minded or unaccepting or square anyone's vibe, I'm all about Quakers and Baptists, but, if the opportunity presents itself to draw attention to what, from my perspective, looks like some manner of wanton, aberrant, self-perpetuating douchebaggery (which is close to the memetic explanation for the whole thing) - well hell, by definition, I'm not in the business of holding back from the intuitive course of action for some pie-in-the-sky type reason - I believe in myself and the world around me after all, so why not?

This thread reminds me of a conversation I was having with CI on a different thread. Christians and non-Christians alike do the same thing on these threads and in real life. We all state our beliefs/non-beliefs and defend them. I don't believe in bashing anyone for what they believe. I may not respect what you believe in but I will respect your right to believe it and I will treat you civilly.

Debra_Law, Christians don't have the power and authority to send anyone to hell. God decides that. The Bible does tell us what we must do to be saved from hell.

I do understand why so many non-Christians get so upset with Christianity and other Christians. There are those that are the epitome of what Debra_Law described. Unfortunately, that particular brand of Christianity is what is remembered the most it seems.

The Bible tells us what love is. Tells us what love does and doesn't do. Telling someone to "go to hell" or you are a "this" or a "that", etc., is never loving according to scripture, nor to those with common sense.

How many derogatory words did you use in this post alone to describe a Christian? Everyone in America is a delusional Christian? Wow, you mean all the people on A2K from America saying they don't believe in God are lying?

Do you see the hypocrisy of your statements?

I can't remember who posted it (maybe parados?) but I agree; I'll paraphrase...



I think that perhaps what transpires in the ongoing cultural clash between Christians (particularly) and non-Christians is that non-Christians have been convinced this is a debate waged with sticks and not carrots.

I think perhaps the non-Christians forget that they have a wealth of carrots.

I think that many Christians are simply uncomfortable with being caught with a stick in their hand so they get defensive and refer to it as "bible bashing."

I think their are some Christians out their offering carrots; wanting to share their views of their religion as about love etc. I don't think these people get equal time on the soapbox for two reasons.

1) Their message doesn't invoke a strong negative emotional reaction that demands address.
2) They might not be comfortable kicking the stick people off the soapbox because they don't want to come off as attacking the thing they love etc.

Just a thought... and a metaphor that ultimately translates to us all just being asses being led around... lol

T
K
O

Re: Bashers; What's In It For You?

The Bashing. Of course.

Some Christians, reading the same Bible will tell you there is no hell, and there are no contradictions either, right neo?

My understanding of the Bible is there is a hell. Neo's understanding is there is not. The contradiction lies with either Neo or myself, not the Bible.

I scanned the whole thread, but didn't read most of the posts in any depth. It seemed at first there was some need to define the word "bashing". It is an over-sed word with a few connotations. One connotation is the physical one which brings to mind blunt objects to fleshy bodies.

And I ask you: when was the last time you heard of a non-christian beating a christian because of his religion (in this country especially)?

What you are speaking about is language. It's discourse that lies in our beloved freedom of speech. I could no less stop the bible-thumper (and yes he was indeed slapping a bible against his palm as he spoke) from railing against homosexuality outside of my local grocery store than christians can stop me from calling their beliefs misguided and even dangerous. I could rise above it and argue with facts and respect instead of anger, but people tend to respond in kind when confronted.

Who says all three of you can't be wrong?

T
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TKO... I believe you are right and have faith in that belief and pray that others agree.

Of course, if one doesn't believe the Bible to be God-inspired and God-breathed, this would be a question to consider. But, I do believe it is God-inspired and Gd-breathed and God doesn't lie.

Arella Mae, on what basis do you rest your belief that the Bible is "God- inspired and God-breathed", or is it just a belief?

I think the dynamic is this...

You say that the Bible to be the work of God.
I say that the bible is not the work of (a) god.

Both are declarative statements. But somehow my statement is viewed by Christians as "bashing."

Nobody likes being told they are wrong. Christians don't enjoy being told their doctrine has problems with continuity, or factual support. Many Christians however have zero issue with "bashing" the Atheist world view. It seems to me that Christians need to realize that they can't cry foul, because others are pointing out the serious concerns/contradictions in their doctrine. I will say this however, I think some go too far in the style in which the confront Christians about this. I'd wager though, that those being indignant are simply participating in the cycle of transference; passing the aggression back. It's a shame, it perpetuates a certain animosity, and probably holds most of the most honest dialog back.

I don't believe in your world view AM, but I recognize that the nature of these things would leave someone feeling very vulnerable if they were to ever admit they were absolutely confident in their beliefs. They'd feel like others would spring on them to try and sway their opinion or exploit this insecurity.

I no longer say things like...

"I'm trying to figure this all out"
"I'm don't understand this"
"I'm searching for meaning in..."

... in front of my Christian friends. Too often they think that my declaration is a open invite to preach etc. That's a very poor assumption. In those moments, I know I've felt very hurt because I felt like opening up to them, and they used that time to try and exploit my unsureness rather than hear my thoughts.

I think Many Christians experience similar feelings with their beliefs. Like they don't agree with a certain teaching, but instead of voicing that concern, they stay quiet because they feel like they would be ostracized by other Christians and/or exploited by non-Christians. In those moments, I think it's easier to anchor down in something that won't budge (a Bible) rather than deal with the difficult and complex interactions that come with deep philosophical thought.

T
K
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TKO. Quote..Who says all three of you can't be wrong? unquote.

You asking Ma to question her particular- peculiar-personal pick of religious belief...( Shock and horror!!! )

Arella, a lot of people think like this and it is a noble thought, but what troubles me is this ...
What if that person's belief includes wife bashing, honour killings of family, mutilation of womens genitals, killing of people who don't follow your beliefs, beheadings, stonings etc ? Can you still respect that person and treat them civilly ?
I would find it very difficult.