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What to do with (European) crumpling churches

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 08:25 am
Quote:
Religion in the News
By ANGELA DOLAND

GESTE, France (AP) ?- Mayor Jean-Pierre Leger was married and baptized his children at Saint-Pierre-aux-Liens church in this village in western France. Not without sadness, he is now planning to bulldoze the 19th century building.

The dilemma of what to do with churches that have fallen out of favor ?- and into disrepair ?- is facing towns and villages across France and other European countries. Some communities have dynamited churches deemed too expensive to maintain. Others have taken a less radical approach, selling them as housing.

In traditionally Roman Catholic France, fewer than 5 percent of the nation's 62 million people attend Mass every week, down from 27 percent a half-century ago, according to a survey of more than 29,000 people published by the Ifop polling agency in 2006.

Leger says the decision to bulldoze most of Geste's church was tough but logical. For $2.13 million ?- less than half the cost of a restoration ?- the 2,400 villagers will get a new church built around the bell tower of the existing structure, which will be preserved along with the crypt.

The crumbling current church "has 1,000 seats. It's five times too big for the congregation that usually comes," said the mayor. "People prefer a more modern church, that's more cheerful and warm, instead of a huge one where they get lost in all the space."

Jewels of religious architecture, like Notre Dame de Paris, have funding from the national government. Not so, however, for tens of thousands of lesser churches, especially rural chapels, many of which host Mass for their dwindling parishioners only once every few weeks. The ages of such churches vary, though many are old by American standards.

Burdened by debt and struggling to revive the economy, the French government can't help much. Culture Minister Christine Albanel has floated some unusual fundraising ideas for preserving significant monuments, including churches; one idea is a game from the national lottery service, another a tax of more than $3 for guests at luxury hotels.

The government and the Catholic Church are to discuss what to do at a June conference. Under a quirk of French law that governs the separation of church and state, most churches are owned by the towns where they are located. That means they have to pay for all repairs if structures are not classed as historic monuments and thus eligible for state funds.

The church has made religious architecture a priority, while acknowledging it isn't always feasible to keep churches standing.

"We understand the reaction in some towns ?- if you have to choose between building a new elementary school or replacing the roof for the church, that can be a problem," said the Rev. Norbert Hennique, director of sacred art for France's Catholic authorities.

France has so many parish churches that neither Catholic nor government authorities have an accurate count. The Culture Ministry says 60,000 is its best guess.

It's unclear exactly how many are nearing ruin. A Culture Ministry report in January said 41 percent of the most significant monuments ?- churches and other buildings ?- are in poor shape or endangered, compared with 32 percent five years ago. That doesn't take into account ordinary, but still lovely, village churches.

"When you lose a town's church, you somehow lose the entire character of the town," said Alain Guinberteau, an architecture fan compiling an online inventory of France's steeples.

In France, converting churches for other uses remains a taboo, though officials plan to raise the possibility at the June conference. In Britain, churches have been turned into apartments, cafes, warehouses ?- even a circus school. In Rome, at the heart of Catholicism, deconsecrated churches are art galleries and a restaurant.

A few European churches are being converted into mosques, sometimes amid controversy. When Muslim groups in Germany bought two New Apostolic chapels in Berlin last year, several Christian leaders erupted in anger.

In France ?- where there are 1,500 mosques and prayer rooms nationwide and more in the works ?- it's unlikely that distressed chapels will be converted for use by Muslims, officials say. That's in part because most of churches are in rural areas that lack sizable Muslim communities, although Muslims do make up about 10 percent of the nation's population overall.

Britain may provide talking points for France as it decides what to do. As in France, preserving churches will be costly: In 2006, conservation group English Heritage estimated the cost of repairing England's most significant places of worship at $1.85 billion over five years ?- a figure that didn't take into account ordinary churches.

Westminster Abbey and St. Paul's Cathedral in London charge hefty entrance fees, unlike in France. Other British churches host conferences. Still others apply for money from the National Lottery.

The problem is particularly pressing in the Anjou region of western France, where many churches, like Geste's, were built with a soft, fragile stone mined nearby in the 19th century ?- by French standards, not that long ago.

The spectacular tear-down and reconstruction of one church in the region, in Le Fief-Sauvin in 1998, became a model for others. It was dynamited. Only some stained-glass windows were preserved and a new structure incorporated around them. A pamphlet at the door even shows a Hollywood-like photo of the bell tower being blown to pieces.

The destruction inspired Geste to do likewise. Its efforts to secure state funding for a renovation failed. Meanwhile, the church's walls were crumbling, throwing down stones that forced villages to rig up a safety net. The church was eventually shuttered as a safety hazard and a demolition permit secured ?- though there is opposition.

Critics ran in local elections this March with candidates promising to ditch the plan if elected. They lost but have not given up. Jean Woznica, a retiree working on a legal battle against the mayor's plans, believes the church is not in dire shape and can be saved for far less than the $4.4 million the mayor says a full renovation would cost.

"For those who say they'd rather have a modern church without pillars, with a better view, which is more warm and friendly ?- would that be a reason for tearing down Notre Dame de Paris?" he asked.

But even Notre Dame needed saving once. The cathedral was in such poor repair in the 19th century that Paris officials considered tearing it down. Victor Hugo wrote "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" to draw attention to its sorry state.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 08:26 am
http://i32.tinypic.com/rkvh8p.jpg
Source: Albuquerque Journal, 12.04.08, page B3

In my hometown, this 13th century church (owned previously by the Evangelical Church) ...

http://i27.tinypic.com/2urrwih.jpg

... became a 'music and culture event house'.

In the Netherlands, I've seen the main churchers of some towns ['Grote Kerk] being changed e.g. to a store (here: Hoorn, on the Jisselmeer)
http://www.aknw.de/data/aktuelles/detail/big-1128583745-9866377.jpg
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 08:37 am
And then there's the terrific bookstore in a 13th century Dominican church in Maastricht -

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/architecture/story/0,,2271875,00.html

an idea which appeals to me a lot.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/04/09/bs372x192.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:24 am
In Britain, quite a couple of former churches are restaurants/bars now ...

http://www.stratfordsummermusic.ca/ssm2002/images/locations_churchrestaurant.jpg
(Northhampton)

http://i29.tinypic.com/2irtcg.jpg
(Glasgow)
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:35 am
I don't mind sacrifying some churches on the altar of gastronomy..
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:35 am
Back in the seventies in Venice, California, one of the local artists and her psychiatrist husband bought a local church and renovated it as studiolliving quarters, doing quite a nice job of the renovation. It wasn't a church building of the age and stature of the others being shown here in Europe, but it had some architectural presence. I don't suppose they are still there, but the building still is.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:40 am
I can't imagine Americans going for such an idea as making a former Church building into a restaurant. The Church is the spirit that arises in congregation, but Americans think that it is the building. I love the idea of the bookstore inside of a former Church building, but sadly books are increasingly looking obsolete as well.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:44 am
I think it's been done in the US, Hawkeye, but maybe it's my skewed memory of a place. I'll see if I can find an example.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:53 am
On a quick look, here are a couple of efforts...


http://www.boston.com/travel/explorene/maine/articles/2007/09/12/meetinghouse_restaurant_is_out_of_the_way_but_out_of_this_world/


http://www.yelp.com/biz/church-brew-works-and-restaurant-pittsburgh
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:59 am


Interesting....thanks.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 11:15 am
If I ever get back to Europe, that Maastricht bookstore is on my route.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 01:02 pm
in canada many old country churches ( they are often located outside villages - just somewhere on a country side road ) can now puchased to be used as country houses , workshop - what have you ).
similarly , many of the old village schools have now been closed and are sold to anyone to be used as desired .
with the move to consolidated schools , there are now many of these buildings on the market .
locally , the masons sold their masonic temple and it has been turned into a theatre .
hbg

old "clap board" country church

http://www.pchswi.org/archives/church/graphics_church/PloverMethodist2.jpg

kingston's former MASONIC TEMPLE - built in 1864 as a congregational church

http://boldts.net/photos/MasonicTemple.jpeg
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 01:12 pm
The Medieval town of Barga in Tuscany has a church at its highest point. When we visited in 1999 it had bolts keeping a large crack in the wall from expanding. Some structural damage had been done by a recent earthquake, if I remember correctly.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cove/6837/Images/Image1.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 01:24 pm
"Osso's Maastricht church" (now Selexyz Dominicanen, formerly the old Dominican Church) has been until 2006 (when it became that bookshop) a parking garage for bicycles

http://i28.tinypic.com/wstg9k.jpg


[Construction of the church of the Dominicans was started in 1267, and it was finished about 1280.]
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 01:41 pm
quite a few of toronto's old churches have been converted into (rather expensive !!!) "lofts" .

the former VICTORIA CHURCH

http://www.victorialofts.ca/images/gallery_current/04_BIG.jpg
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 02:43 pm
"crumpling" or "crumbling" ? Smile

Somewhere in Italy we visited a bunch of artisans inhabiting a not-so-crumbling castle. It was great to see, after visiting all the derelict castles in the UK.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 03:04 pm
Mame wrote:

Somewhere in Italy we visited a bunch of artisans inhabiting a not-so-crumbling castle. It was great to see, after visiting all the derelict castles in the UK.



I could imagine that there's a tiny difference between the original purpose of a castle and that of a church :wink:

(On the other hand I'm sure that you'll find as many Italian castelli whereconservazione e restauro should be done as there are derelicted castles on the British Isles.)
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 04:03 pm
this former church in toronto is for sale at $2,480,000 - a real bargain in toronto's hot real state market

http://imagesb.backpage.com/centralimages/yyz/29/2908507cc2ef0be4b493401c20782f21--2--24Cecil031jpg--large.jpg


find details here :
TORONTO CHURCH FOR SALE
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 05:25 pm
Although it has been closed for a couple of years, there is an older church building here in Tulsa that became a fairly well-known recording studio for a number of years. Let me find the dates...

Ah, here it is.

"The Church Studio" was begun by Leon Russell in 1972.

http://www.admiraltwin.com/images/churchstudio/Church%20Studio.gif
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 05:39 pm
Well, two emotional hits..

in that the photo of Maastricht, dominican church with bicycles makes me cry. So wrong.

I'm no fan of the dominicans over the ages.

But I don't mind books there. Books of all sorts. In fact.... I revel in that.

I wonder, did they leave all this on the periphery?

I can get people who feel violated by all this.

Snort, thinking of my contorted exchanges with sellers in Rome iconic churches... (one thought I was portughese from my dress).. and that was inside the church.



And Barga, I'd love to check out Barga.

I've read about it a few times since hearing about it from littleK.

Oh, and glorious picture.



I'm trying to figure myself out. I don't like seeing churches mocked. Argued with, sure, I'd probably agree with all.

I guess mocking is a fine point for me. Not that anyone on this thread is doing all that. Just thinking while typing.
0 Replies
 
 

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